Destro morale pump - SM/BO dominance

[Jaycub]

Good positioning on part of the destro healers can allow them to punish the order comp extremely hard for going into their backlines with an IB. Good groups we have played against just CC our slayer and super punt the knight and things go downhill quick without a tank in the area to swap gaurd. We talked about running different strats with IB where we sit on the destro healers with our melee train, but when they run double dok 90% of the time if they just bum rush our RP it will die before we get one of the doks down.

And I know itemization is pretty lacking atm, but im sure they could or eventually just use a weapon/armor on the tanks/slayer with a corrosion proc. Whatever amount that would gimp the person using it probably wouldn't equal the amount you gimp your party by using an IB over Knight/SM.


edit: back on the topic of double dok comps, they can't cleanse IB, Knight, or WL (curses) so slayer debuffs in a group setup with IB/Knight get cleansed like no tomorrow. So shatter limbs and healdebuffs are melting off in WL/Slayer groups with IB/Knight. Meaning SM is ever more important just for the cover on cleanses.

[TenTonHammer]

What a time to be alive, i remeber the early days of RoR how we all strived to come up with buffs for SM and BO, espically SM because it couldnt compete with an amazing second tank like IB

How things have changed

[Eathisword]

Concerning IB : some minor change could make it a little better. Getting Runic Shield to actually work would help, 1000 absorb of resist based damage every 10s would reduce the pressure that BO/cho/gift of savagery bring. Same for stubborn as stone, if it procced of melee magic damage, it would give a solid 50% AA haste, make it share with oathfriend, freeing slayer/WL a tactic slot.

Then IB/BG armor debuff could be twinked a bit, because atm, at 75 grudge it is only 800ish. At 100 it is about 1100, less good then WL/mara... and tbh often you aren't at 100 grudge when you apply it, you can be at 99 (you stuck at 99 a lot in RoR...) Popping it to 1400-1500 would also indirectly buff IB/BG's damage.

And if we want to go really over the top, IB/BG could get the 25% parry buff as core, like chosen/SM, freeing em the need to spec in tanky middle tree, freeing some points to spec more utility or more damage when as they are primarily off-tanks in current meta.

Concerning double dok : swap their cleanse with zealot, i.e : zealot cleanse Hex and ailment; DoK cleanse curses and hex. Having the toughest destro healer be able to cleanse all order inc HD (all ailments) is a bad meta.

[TenTonHammer]

should we continue buffing armor debuffs soo much so to the extent that their is no reason to ever use demolishing strike?

just a side thought

[Eathisword]

should we continue buffing armor debuffs soo much so to the extent that their is no reason to ever use demolishing strike?

just a side thought

DS is 1050 armor debuff. BG/IB armor debuff (at 100 mechanic) is already better. They have no reason to spec that... Rock clutch and Banish weakness are way better then the fluffy DoT.

Edit : nvm, I didn't think this through... You can stack em...

[Jaycub]

should we continue buffing armor debuffs soo much so to the extent that their is no reason to ever use demolishing strike?

just a side thought

Demolishing Strike will always be relevant as it's a morale based armor debuff that stacks additively with ability based ones. Pretty sure most 6 mans have a tank running CC and the other DS.

A lot of class balance woes come from stacking rules imo

[mursie]

I agree IB is in a better spot than BG, but ya it seems a good order comp needs SM for the DPS output... and it's not like SM is lacking in great utility. And then you need a knight again pretty self explanatory. So IB is shafted in that regard, as it doesn't bring near as much damage as SM. and doesn't have as strong utility as the knight or SM.

I think destro has the stronger mdps comp atm. Mara/choppa. Two chosens, a BG and chosen, or a BO and chosen would work with this comp and do quite well.

I think order has more difficulty. I don't think their mdps comp is as strong as destro and it requires synergized tanks to work. specifcally, I think a slayer/WL needs a kotbs and SM. I think a slayer/WH could use an IB and Kotbs.

I think the IB is more than capable at dishing great damage while being very useful from a utility standpoint. But I think it is the mdps comp for order that really determines the tank comp used.

at the end of the day - mara. I think the mara really drives the bus for any competitive differences between the two factions. It has all the tools and is mandatory. Order doesn't quite have a comparable, although the slayer is close.

[Annaise16]

Do you guys even understand the value of a good armor debuff? A 1000 point armor debuff is going to buff your groups physical damage against medium armor classes by 25%-40%. This is more than twice as much as the combined damage boost from Encouraged Aim and Dirty Tricks. Considering how highly you seem to rate those two kotbs tactics, I wonder how you can so easily dismiss the importance of the IB's armor debuff.

[Azarael]

IB isn't the only source of an armor debuff.

[TenTonHammer]

I wonder how you can so easily dismiss the importance of the IB's armor debuff.

because Force Opportunity is better?