Return of Reckoning

Tklees wrote:except when the kd is 3 seconds and its on a tank. Which is what this thread is discussing. Your point was WH/WE need a 3 sec KD for sustained damage.

No, my point is thhat WE/WH having 3 secs gives them a niche and that they need one because imo, they have lower sustained comparedd to other melee.

They dont need 3secs for sustained damage, they need 3 secs because burst is their niche.

Tklees wrote:I disagree with that point I stated why. I guess I can post screens of my WEs dps in the current witchbrew no kd spec if you would like? My point about the duels was to offer a solo perspective of why WH/WE also do not need a 3 second KD.

Witchbrew is by definition, a burst skill, you do extra damage in bursts, as in, when you pop witchbrew your damage spikes, a burst. So no you dont need to post screens to prove my point thanks.

Tklees wrote:As to Germany always winning soccer wasn't the past world cup the first in like 25 years? Not that I care because I'm an unculterd american and love my Football.

Well since you did not get it let me explain, that is a saying from Gary Lineker, it has been repeated ad naseaum and just like your "being predictable is as good as being dead" is something that people say when they dont have anything of substance to say, a buzzphrase if you will.

Gachimuchi wrote:Then you obviously are clueless as to what you are talking about. Go watch bretin's steam for a sc or 2 while he's playing his witch elf and it will put any doubts of the sustained damage output of WE(I'd be suprised if WH wasn't similar) to rest.

You mean i should see the guy who championed that spec as the "best burst damage in the game" to see how good at sustained it is? Alright mate.

bloodi wrote:

Tklees wrote:except when the kd is 3 seconds and its on a tank. Which is what this thread is discussing. Your point was WH/WE need a 3 sec KD for sustained damage.

No, my point is thhat WE/WH having 3 secs gives them a niche and that they need one because imo, they have lower sustained comparedd to other melee.

They dont need 3secs for sustained damage, they need 3 secs because burst is their niche.

Well when it comes to burst 2 seconds on a competent WE/WH is enough...3 is a death sentence. There are plenty of pre1.4.8 WE/WH videos of them working really well. Here is the Shebali video referenced earlier. I know this is RR80...and gear will be different, but as soon as most WE were in Conqueror they could be push this level of damage.

Click here to watch on YouTube

The DPS test is at the end and is more why I put the video in. Take note Shebali isn't even in Sov...just warlord and Invader.The WE was capable of killing in 3 seconds and that was still with a 2s KD.

ok then since I misunderstood you, WH/WE does not need help with their niche, we are the stealth gank class. Therefore we get lower overall sustained damage you are correct. We trade this in for higher single target burst. A 1 second difference in KD duration is not going to affect this niche one way or the other. As to my comment being made due to lack of substance, believe what you will but I actually play with that idea in mind, doesn't always work out but it makes things interesting.

Is this video accurate? Was he endlessly slaying noobs? Or is it that the top tier players on live that he killed as most in this video were casters... not one of them tried a bhop? I thought it was "a very standard tactic"..... Weird..

freshour wrote:Is this video accurate? Was he endlessly slaying noobs? Or is it that the top tier players on live that he killed as most in this video were casters... not one of them tried a bhop? I thought it was "a very standard tactic"..... Weird..

There are some known good players from back then in there, It is mostly showing off gank potential. Most people who got Shebali'd were dead before they could get back up. not all were casters not all were great players. I see way more bunny hopping on RoR then i remember on live. The exaggeration wasn't as pronounced on live but it did exist (mostly when riding fast mounts)

WH sustained dps is less than slayer but on a par with WL. WE is less than choppa but on a par with marauder. But the thing with WH/WE is that they are primarily burst classes.

When Torment/AW are hitting from behind, WH/WE are averaging 65% armor penetration. This is better than any other mdps class. This is their strength.

Of course, the kd aids their positional attacks. So giving them a longer duration kd than other mdps classes would improve their utility. But it is doing so in a completely unbalanced manner because it is also providing a major benefit to their ganking ability, and you have to ask if that is fair to their victims. If you want to buff them, the a fairer ways of doing so.

People forget that those 3-second kds were introduced during the Trivial Blows era when toons had 9k+ hit points. With TB gone, we'll once again see AW and Torment critting for 2k+ against toons with 6k hit points. No one will be asking for 3s kds then.

2 sec kd on every melee, let 3 sec kd stay on tank where true cc should be, 4/5 sec kd are bg/IB stuff and need to be treat indipendently.
If you want a 3 sec kd ask a tank to do that otherwise you have Faster kd.

aoe KD could require more attention in future.

Most of the relevant stuff have been said but: RKDS should be 35ft (SW) respectively 65ft (BW) max.

RKD should be defensive ability used against melee classes. Nowadays they are used as universal combat swinger. Both RKDS classes have plenty of CC, BWs RKD should be bit stonger than SWs one as it needs 13p in mastery. SW uses RKD as basic spamable skill and because RKD its realm exclusive this is bit gamebreaking.

If its needed to counter Run Away! (advocated by many Order players) then SWs RKD is an overkill as RA proc only 25% and shamans dont slot it except solo/small grp rvr roam. Along with great DPS of SW and many unbreakable 35f roots and no flesh/insta heals on Shaman this is mostly a death sentence for Shammy Hybrid/DPS as u have to stay in 65ft to be effective. It basically pushes Shaman to spend RR to have RD and CW.

Another way how to fix this issue would be changing lvl 2 of RD to stay on 10sec effect but with 2 min CD (same as CW).

And nerf pounce, what else?

Scrilian wrote:And nerf pounce, what else?

Shatter limbs becomes an exhaustive strike