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[Swordmaster]Why are our tactics so bad?

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: [Swordmaster]Why are our tactics so bad?

Post#81 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:11 pm

A lot of these changes wont make SM good / meta in terms of 6 mans, either in 2-2-2 or 3-2-1.

When you talk about SM buffs you need to look at knight/IB (the classes competing for the tank role slot w/ SM) and see why they are preferred or even mandatory in a 2 tank or solo tank setup.

Looking at IB the most obvious thing it brings that other tanks do not is punishing knock. Because of how well it counters DoK's and how much of an impact 50% less healing is even if it is just kept on 1 healer this skill alone is reason enough to disregard anything SM can do.

Knights are well... knights all I have to say is "encouraged aim, dirty tricks, focused mending"

What unique facet do SM's bring to a group? Whispering winds is about all I can think of, which would actually be very good but destro does not have shatter limbs which means you aren't really getting much out of it aside from some things which I don't really believe are necessary, such as WP being able to spam group cleanse, or WL being able to spam lions fury. Reduced cooldowns are nice, but not near as strong as punishing knock, or knight 20% crit 15% healing etc... Not to mention WW is a 13 point ability which means you are pigeon holed into a spec unlike IB/Knight that get their "good" abilities not even half way up the tree giving them tons of flexibility in how they build.

The AoE nature of their punt can often times be a hindrance more than a blessing thanks to CC immunities... another skill that was nerfed far more than others by that patch that was never changed to reflect what happened.

Unless the meta drastically changes SM really need something, and that something needs to either reflect what is most important in this game at the highest level. And that important thing can basically be boiled down to burst / overcoming healing and inversely protecting your group from burst and making sure your healing isn't overcome. Which is why the knight is considered the best 6 man tank in the game. The 20% crit for the team is gigantic for burst, the 15% more healing for everyone is the same thing. Then you got stuff like banish darkness which is amazing for removing guard, or throwing anyone into a position they don't want to be in.

IDK what SM should be defined by, but stat steal that doesn't stack with anything that is already covered by many classes often times in better fashion, and whispering winds is never going to cut it when you are facing destro premades who are going to be running the best comps they have available to them.

In this game unless your groups skill is on a whole other level than the group you are fighting you have to take advantage of the best classes you have available to you to compete, and right now I just don't see why anyone would be running a SM over IB/Knight in that situation.

No class should ever be mandatory, there should be a plethora of viable comps that benefit from running a different solo tank / set of tanks. But right now I feel setups like say knight/IB/WP/RP/Slayerx2 just overshadow everything on order. RDPS I think are going to get a reality check in T4 because right now in T3 they are as good as they are going to get. Hopefully changes to classes and the overall meta will bring in more viable comp variety and allow the SM to settle somewhere nicely with some changes.
Spoiler:
this is mostly just rambling/ranting until we see how things are in t4 so don't take anything I say too seriously :^) I just wish I could run my SM without feeling like I'm a cheating my group out of a better class
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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: [Swordmaster]Why are our tactics so bad?

Post#82 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:29 pm

Jaycub wrote:this is mostly just rambling/ranting until we see how things are in t4 so don't take anything I say too seriously :^) I just wish I could run my SM without feeling like I'm a cheating my group out of a better class[/spoiler]
Agree with all you said. Since playing a Knight and now playing an SM I feel like as a Knight I dont have to do anything but show up and "essentially" put an MDPS on follow and I win.

On SM I have to chain combos ALL over the place and yet feel all I offer the group is a few bonus stats and damage that could easily be matched by anything else.

My previous posts were just about small QoL fixes that wouldnt require drastic changes to the class but you are 100% correct here. They need to have meaningful group contribution....
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maggii
Posts: 28

Re: [Swordmaster]Why are our tactics so bad?

Post#83 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:24 pm

Swordmasters got nerfed to the bones back on the early days of live. Among those things they'd aoe spiritutal debuffs and dealth spiritual dmg which was truly insane. We had a lot of discussions between swordmasters were we came to the conclusion that after all the nerfs it needs 5 tactic slots to get even with other tanks. :lol: Inspite their weakness they do have some goodies to give to group and you can spec it through the mastery trees to be usefull to any kind of setup of premade I dare say.
If you enjoy the stances, and find the tricks to be useful you will be ok.
BUT I can also say that however good of a swordmaster you are premades might prefer a bad kotbs coz its ez.
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peppex91
Posts: 90

Re: [Swordmaster]Why are our tactics so bad?

Post#84 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:28 pm

Among those things they'd aoe spiritutal debuffs and dealth spiritual dmg which was truly insane
SM still today can aoe debuff spiritual resistance and it's the only tank capable of deal a pure spir rotation (chosen just got some) making it have an advantage vs other heavy armored fellas.
Can also compete with BO as burst and get some nice utlity tools as NB, WW and Intimidating Blow (with tact slotted it get -25% crit chance and being 5 sec cd 10 sec duration u can use it for 2 targets).
The lack of ccs it's their major gimp this class suffer (talking for both BO/SM), but i don't think it makes such a problem when SM/BO is not the only tank.
Being such a weird tank give him something special another more reliable tank could not provide.
It's just that chosen and especially kotbs are very ez to master so it's easyer to spot a weak Sm...

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