Return of Reckoning

TenTonHammer wrote:i could be wrong my memory is hazy so 3 i could remember as 8

Either way, its arguably ~ as good as the lvl 35 blue weapons. Not as good as Boundless, but doesnt cost anything except time

Hi all guys

sorry for my english i'm italian.

Just to not open another 3d about i would just know a thing: i would roll a chosen but i don't know if is viable sword&shield to levelling.
After this there are decent builds (dps) with sword&shield?

On original game i had a chosen but i don't remember if i was 2h or 1h.
I would use sword&shield but i wouldn't loose 10 mins to kill a mob while levelling..

Thanks all!

Too many 2H tanks build like retards and that's why they get shredded. For instance right now duelist gear is crap compared to devastator. The 5pc dev bonus is absolutely amazing in comparison. Not to mention just because you go 2H doesn't mean all the sudden you need to have 950 str, you can do very respectable damage with even 400-500 str right now and pumping the rest into avoidance/wounds.

Even on a class like BO which doesn't have easy mode 2h abilities like suppression you can easily get away with going 2h and still guarding anything and laugh at groups that try to focus you down first because you have a 2h.

Jaycub wrote:Too many 2H tanks build like retards and that's why they get shredded. For instance right now duelist gear is crap compared to devastator. The 5pc dev bonus is absolutely amazing in comparison. Not to mention just because you go 2H doesn't mean all the sudden you need to have 950 str, you can do very respectable damage with even 400-500 str right now and pumping the rest into avoidance/wounds.

Even on a class like BO which doesn't have easy mode 2h abilities like suppression you can easily get away with going 2h and still guarding anything and laugh at groups that try to focus you down first because you have a 2h.

+ to this. Duelist is nice because of the 10% chance to proc taunt which provides 30% bonus. So yeah, if players want that, you can go duelist and still grab toughness/wounds gear.

Not to mention with RR go FULL parry!! That + suppression + parry ring can get you over 50% chance to parry (with decent WS factored in) Last time I did the rough math, I think I was sitting around 54%.

I definitely am guilty of going for STR though - just cause its fun. But probably should re-allocate some points into either toughness/wounds or maybe even @ this tier, armor makes sense since the armor we are using didnt scale with the bump to 35....

Any thoughts on that actually? Whats the best defensive stat? I think I am sitting around 500 toughness atm, ~6,200 HP. Would RR points be best spent on full parry, then disrupt? Or maybe on stats like toughness....

weapon skill, i feel is wasted on 2h chosen whose main attacks are ravage, blast wave, and rending blade all of which are spiritual and so i feel raw + parry% is better and focus on tough, wounds and ini

TenTonHammer wrote:weapon skill, i feel is wasted on 2h chosen whose main attacks are ravage, blast wave, and rending blade all of which are spiritual and so i feel raw + parry% is better and focus on tough, wounds and ini

Agree, WS is wasted but we get so much for free on gear that just has it added...

For toughness vs wounds. I have read SO many things on this that ALL suggest toughness > wounds on higher armor players.

I guess I am just very curious as to why. My understanding on toughness is its direct 1:1 damage reduction meaning, that if I have -100 DPS from toughness, every hit on me deals 100 less damage, be it a DoT or a BIG hit.

However, toughness, does not impact guard damage taken - which accounts for a TON of the damage I take. Which makes me thing Wounds would be best as a bigger HP pool, the more guard damage I can take.

I am toughness stacked where I can atm, however just keep going back and forth on the value of wounds vs toughness. I know FULL tank spec, I would think toughness stacking + Initiative would be a deadly combo to stack, along with block - and I may do this come T4 for destined, but atm I am enjoying a 2H tank with Rending stacking CS on everyone....

So my RR points are spent on Parry/Disrupt/Dodge atm. In gear I stack STR/Toughness with (almost!) 5/5 Duelist gear and the "Epic" weapon (its really a blue lol). I dont seem to ever have any "tankiness" issues as long as a semi competent healer even glances in my direction.... However I want to find that "balance" between offensive vs defensive stats you know?

I was even considering just going full DEV, dropping my damage to crap, just to be uber tanky with the 5 pc setup, its a BIG loss of damage though from the duelist.

I have a 35/40RR Knight, and a 35/33 SM, so I feel I understand the "META" concerns blah blah, but my desired ROLL probably isnt part of the "ideal" META as I want to play a 2H Tank who has respectable damage. Maybe not top notch or even close to a MDPS' but atleast at a level where my damage on a target makes a difference...

th3gatekeeper wrote:I guess I am just very curious as to why. My understanding on toughness is its direct 1:1 damage reduction meaning, that if I have -100 DPS from toughness, every hit on me deals 100 less damage, be it a DoT or a BIG hit.

This is a common misconception that comes from trusting the character sheet to tell you jack ****. I seriously hate it so much.

It's better to think of Toughness as a 1:1 reduction of the enemy's damage stat. Different abilities scale differently with stats, and all scaling is modified by the cast time. If you only think of it as a damage reduction, you are often underestimating (in some cases over-estimating) it's effect.

So for example, Doombolt gets a 3x contribution from Intelligence (actually it's 1x from Int and 3x from cast time, but it's the same here), and so you get a 3x contribution from Toughness. If the enemy has 1050 Intelligence (+210 DPS x 3 = +630 DPS), and you have 600 (-120 DPS) Toughness, her damage will be calculated as if she only had 450 Intelligence (3x 90 DPS = 270 DPS).

So in short, your 600 Toughness isn't reducing your damage by 120, it's reducing your damage by 360.


When it comes to DoTs, the Toughness reduces the contribution of the damage stat before the ticks are divided up. It's not a straight reduction from each tick.

For example, Heavy Blow's DoT efect gets a 4x contribution from Strength, and let's say it ticks 3 times because I don't really know off-hand. 1050 Strength is (210 DPS x 4) 840 DPS for the total lifetime of the DoT, but that's +280 damage per tick. Your Toughness comes in as above, reducing the contribution by 4x, so it's 450 Strength (90 DPS x 4) 360 DPS, which is +120 damage per tick.

Once again, your 600 toughness isn't reducing the damage of each tick by 120, it's actually reducing it by 160.

Long story short, never trust the character sheet to tell you anything useful.

Genisaurus wrote:
Long story short, never trust the character sheet to tell you anything useful.

Invaluable information here! WOW.... So it seems I have been under estimating toughness by a large deal.

Do you have any advice as to how I should be "weighing" toughness? Since it seems to be a reduction of enemy damage stat, I should be weighing toughness as a -X stat. So if I am jumping from -100 DPS to -120 DPS its basically like saying its -20 STR or -20 Int?

Then I would need to consider that some abilities get a multiplier from that stat?

I know Az once told me that 1 weapon damage is ~ 10 STR... So it seems that adds another layer of complexity that almost seems to indicate weapon damage is worth more than its weight in STR because it doesnt get impacted by toughness...?

This is rather complex stuff HAHAHA!

th3gatekeeper wrote:

Genisaurus wrote:
Long story short, never trust the character sheet to tell you anything useful.

Invaluable information here! WOW.... So it seems I have been under estimating toughness by a large deal.

Do you have any advice as to how I should be "weighing" toughness? Since it seems to be a reduction of enemy damage stat, I should be weighing toughness as a -X stat. So if I am jumping from -100 DPS to -120 DPS its basically like saying its -20 STR or -20 Int?

Then I would need to consider that some abilities get a multiplier from that stat?

I know Az once told me that 1 weapon damage is ~ 10 STR... So it seems that adds another layer of complexity that almost seems to indicate weapon damage is worth more than its weight in STR because it doesnt get impacted by toughness...?

This is rather complex stuff HAHAHA!

If you're jumping from -100 DPS to -120 DPS, that means you're going from 500 Toughness to 600 Toughness, which means it's like reducing your attacker's Str/BS/Int by 100. As a result of this, your damage is reduced by (20 * their ability's modifier(s)).

At level 35, for a 2H tank, I would try to get your Toughness to around 500 (at 40 I recommend 600), before trying to focus on Strength. That's old advice though, from when Sov was common and people were RR80, so it might not apply anymore.

The effects of weapon DPS on abilities isn't directly reduced by Toughness (technically, if they have less Strength than you have Toughness, I guess you could think of the overflow as "cutting into it"). Weapon DPS is important for your damage, but the DPS value of a weapon is typically determined by it's level and rarity - in other words, not something you really "spec" for. When considering the value of toughness, you can effectively ignore it.

Genisaurus wrote: If you're jumping from -100 DPS to -120 DPS, that means you're going from 500 Toughness to 600 Toughness, which means it's like reducing your attacker's Str/BS/Int by 100. As a result of this, your damage is reduced by (20 * their ability's modifier(s)).

At level 35, for a 2H tank, I would try to get your Toughness to around 500 (at 40 I recommend 600), before trying to focus on Strength. That's old advice though, from when Sov was common and people were RR80, so it might not apply anymore.

Hmmm, so if I am weighing a +20 STR tali or +20 Toughness tali, the net impact is going to essentially be a positive for me vs negative for them in a 1:1 ratio? meaning the +20 STR for me is the same "ratio" I could mitigate for them by going 20 toughness?

Funny you say this, because 500 has been my target # to hit before STR.... lol!

Genisaurus wrote: The effects of weapon DPS on abilities isn't directly reduced by Toughness (technically, if they have less Strength than you have Toughness, I guess you could think of the overflow as "cutting into it"). Weapon DPS is important for your damage, but the DPS value of a weapon is typically determined by it's level and rarity - in other words, not something you really "spec" for. When considering the value of toughness, you can effectively ignore it.

True, however when comparing two weapons.... If weapon A has 5 more DPS than weapon B, but 20 less STR... Which is better.... Stuff like that is good to know how these things work... Ive generally favored STR since it reduces their chance to parry and gets multiplied on abilities... But now I dont know how to weight those...

Az told me in the past that ~1 weapon DPS is worth about 10STR...