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Overarching balance changes

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Poll: Which game mechanic needs to be changed the most?

Guard
25
9%
Cleanse
65
23%
Buff/Debuff stacking
10
4%
Critical damage
33
12%
%Damage mitigation abilities (Detaunt/Challenge/ID/Bellow etc...)
12
4%
Softcaps
10
4%
Morales
13
5%
Group Heal
24
9%
Armor/Resistance stacking and penetration
28
10%
Crowd Control and immunities
58
21%
Total votes: 278

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Tesq
Posts: 5713

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#741 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:59 pm

the only differenece in choppa/slayer vs bw/sorc is the parry vs the tank, they are squigshy in the same way ...
meccanics are also near, to be fair parry is ignored by bw/sorc so in a direct confrontation they have 0 def vs each other, the problem it's still set back vs not set back, why caster have set back..?

-mobility dps vs static dps > rdps do more damages to cover for this
-both have cap magic resistences with auras> melee edge, but choppa slayer aoe main skill hit 3ppl
-choppa slayer loose half armor but dosen't matter, cos it dosen't cut the resistence. So choppa slayer actually have no drawback vs magiccaster currently
-hold the line/no counter part for melee, unjustified in reality, if a caster is in between of tank and dps hold the line still work so hold the line argumentaly should increase also block/parry to anyone behind seeing how hold the line work so easily vs caster.
-even cut half choppa/slayer resistences wont solve mara/wl damages.

so specifically melee have no drawback vs caster, mara in particular have no drawback at all with anti armor ingnore.
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Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#742 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:16 pm

>RDPS do more damage than MDPS

Really now?
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Ravai
Posts: 99

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#743 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:28 pm

This is my take on the discussion.

Bw/Sorc in open

Top tier dps for orvr and farming kills in the lakes nobody can argue this, in most instances you have a shield of allies infront to nuke behind or a keep wall, you also have fluff damage from other players to mask your burst and snipe kills whilst the enemy is focused on trying to keep the other 15+ people up around them. But, you have to remember they are the only classes in the game that must have a healer to be even remotely useful, and if they are caught without guard/focused heals they are an easy kill, positioning is so important on this class as is silencing pulls and being aware of immunites.

Bw/sorc in a 6v6 setting

"Boiling blood/word of pain on me! taking damage in 5,4,3..2...." I wonder if the enemy team can coordinate a strategy to prevent the incoming dmg?!111
- guard swap
- pre heals
- Stagger
- knockdown
- Knockback
- taunt
- challenge
- morales
- pots
- kite out of range
- clense from support
- clensing wind
- detaunts
etc,

You see, when put into a situation with players who understand the class its easily dealt with and against a good melee comp especially if you're up against mara/wl m1 (pretty much a guaranteed kill everytime if you punt guard/stagger support) it becomes incredibly boring to play in this setting (this goes for sh/sw as well). Not to mention that the constant pressure from a melee group means if your caught you actually cant do any damage as the risk of backlash only aids the enemy team in killing you faster.

6v6 fights are all about reacting quickly to plays, mdps just does this better, constant dps (that melee provides mostly due to auto attacks being factored in) gives your opposition little room to prepare counter moves as they are always on the defensive, you can react fast and change to focus different targets even faster with melee (no easy flags like wop/bb) and it just outshines a ranged comp in every department at t4 6v6, even more so at higher renown rank when defensive passives are stacked and health values are increased further

That said, this is no complaint, the fact every class has a niche and if your bored of one class you can play another and have almost a different experience is what makes this game fun for so long.
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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#744 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:50 am

I just found a cool article, the orginal team size of Scenarios were actually 20vs20
4 10 man groups.

"As the presentation came to an end, we were informed that last up was some hands-on inside two different scenarios - namely "Mourkain Temple" and "Gates of Ekrund". We were separated into four teams of 10 each, I believe, so there were two games going on in the press room at any given time. The first scenario was a form of the "Murderball" type instance. It played out like this. The map was a medium sized swamp, with two starting positions, one for each team. In the middle of the map, a temple was located, and in the middle of the temple was a statue. The goal of the map was to have your team gain 500 points before the enemy. Points were gained by killing enemies, and also bonus points for having the statue while killing enemies. In short, get the statue, keep it and obliterate the enemy."
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Crymoor
Banned
Posts: 34

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#745 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:05 am

Here's my suggested changes to a few of these topics:


Regarding the viability of RDPS vs. MDPS and the 1-3-2/2-2-2 group comp disparity:

New Core RDPS Tactic: While under the effect (in range) of guard, your armor value from items will be increased by 100%, and your chance to be setback while casting will be reduced by 50%.


Regarding BW’s/Sorc’s:

Sorc/BW mechanic: While at 100 Combustion/DM you will receive 100% increased critical damage, but suffer a 35% increased chance to be critically hit. (Really would like to get away from the RNG as much as possible)

Dhar Wind/Meltdown: (At 100 mechanic) Reduces damage taken to 75% for 10sec.
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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#746 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:14 am

RDPS don't need any kinda buffs, that buff would make em broken AF in large scale combat.

the 6v6 community need to realize that the game isn't ballanced in that small encounters and shouldn't be the base of ballance either as it breaks the game once you scale it up to the formats that the game actually supports. That being 12v12 instanced PVP and Warband Sized open world pvp.
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Crymoor
Banned
Posts: 34

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#747 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:21 am

What specifically leads you to think that? The only thing I could really think of was potential problems with bomb groups and close quarters. But I don't see why it would be any harder to counter than punting a tank away from an MDPS (like a guarded slayer at full rage)...

Maybe change the numbers of the armor increase/cast setback then. Other than that it seems like a pretty solid idea imo and I honestly think it would scale just fine if implemented correctly.
I was almost funny once.

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#748 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:33 am

Crymoor wrote:The only thing I could really think of was potential problems with bomb groups and close quarters. But I don't see why it would be any harder to counter than punting a tank away from an MDPS (like a guarded slayer at full rage)...

Maybe change the numbers of the armor increase/cast setback then. Other than that it seems like a pretty solid idea imo and I honestly think it would scale just fine if implemented correctly.
Rdps as archetypes works perfectly fine atm. What people here are talking about is that they suck in context of 6v6 wich the game isn't ballanced for. Once you scale the fights up to 12v12 or higher rdps classes becomes ALOT better. The Magus and Engineer are underperforming. But thas to do with their clumpsy mechanic and has nothing to do with their archetyrpe as rdps
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Valfaros
Posts: 260

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#749 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:59 am

roadkillrobin wrote:
Crymoor wrote:The only thing I could really think of was potential problems with bomb groups and close quarters. But I don't see why it would be any harder to counter than punting a tank away from an MDPS (like a guarded slayer at full rage)...

Maybe change the numbers of the armor increase/cast setback then. Other than that it seems like a pretty solid idea imo and I honestly think it would scale just fine if implemented correctly.
Rdps as archetypes works perfectly fine atm. What people here are talking about is that they suck in context of 6v6 wich the game isn't ballanced for. Once you scale the fights up to 12v12 or higher rdps classes becomes ALOT better. The Magus and Engineer are underperforming. But thas to do with their clumpsy mechanic and has nothing to do with their archetyrpe as rdps

True the more enemys you face the more people there are which prevents a push to the backline. So as long as the front stands and holds the meeles away from the BW the more dmg he can do. He gets also a benefit out of more cover conditions which allows the full BW rotation to hit.

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Crymoor
Banned
Posts: 34

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#750 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:00 pm

But could this change not work towards both making them more viable in a 6v6 setting whilst maintaining their balance in larger scale 12v12/RvR? What about when accounting for the proposed BW/Sorc changes I mentioned as well? Surely they were the biggest threat to benefit from this proposed change.

Not to mention, in order to slot this tactic many RDPS would have to sacrifice other tactics considered crucial in many builds.
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