Return of Reckoning

backrow wrote:no, I don't main one, the guy who made the valid point does. learn to read, learn to play. so many things to do, so little time.

do you still keyboard turn Euan?

Bretin wrote:Ok let me start with a more srs post since this thread is still about the marauder class discussion but ppl keep complaining about everything but not about the marauder. I'm gonna quote something I’ve posted in the past. Basically it’s a post which sums up the current state of marauder in T4 pretty well and it shows what “fotm order” has to deal with:

If you want to determine the balance of a class, you must consider the following attributes:

- How much offensive potential does the class have
- How much defensive potential does the class have
- In what way does the defense restrict the offensive and vice versa (if you’d have a number line, with the numbers 1-10 on the left and right side, which represent your defense resp. offensive, and in the middle a 0, how would it affect the ratio at one side if you’d manipulate the other side?)

Those are general things you have to define before you strive for further deliberations about the balance.

A few facts referring to the mentioned points above:

1. The Marauder has the highest base-damage-values of all mdps-classes, since he never had a damage mechanic or a crit-dmg tactic in the past (GI was too unreliable to count as such one). That didn’t change after the buffs to GI, so that the Marauder has the same dmg modifiers as WE/WH/WL (with restrictions, since all these classes got tactics which increases their dmg modifier but which can be used only limited i.e. Vindication, Masterful Treachery, Revenge etc.), while he has a higher base-damage on his abilities.

However, the Marauder would be able to keep pace even if you consider the above mentioned tactics, since he got an equally strong ability which works without any restrictions regarding to reliability and tactic-slots (Mutated Aggressor).

2. The Marauder is by far the class which deals, almost independently on your target, the most damage in comparison to his maximum damage potential. That means, while every other mdps class is limited to 20-30% of his max. damage potential against some classes and players, the marauder is able to pull off 50-60% of his max. damage potential against the same target. That’s a result of the immense low mitigation a marauder can reach against his target, thanks to the best armor debuff, a toughness debuff and a tactic which let you ignore 50% of the remaining armor and another skill which does not only profit from the above mentioned penetration-possibilities but also ignores a fixed value of armor by itself.

3. The Marauder is the onliest mdps class which has all debuffs you need to kill a target with guard. Every other dps class relies on a second one because she either lack the heal- or armor debuff. The marauder does not only have both of these abilities, no his versions of those abilities are also the strongest ig (best armor debuff and best healdebuff because it can’t be purged by the wp’s group purge on a 5s CD and 10s duration plus 50% heal leech for the Marauder himself. That heal leech contains literally every healing type, including potions and even more preposterous: OVERHEAL!)

3.1 A snare which can’t be purged. Therefore the best snare of all MDPS-classes and combined with charge and terrible embrace it makes the Marauder the best MDPS-class when it comes to prevent your target from kiting.

Also the Marauder has the best HP-debuff ingame, which is the third best debuff after armor and healdebuff you can have on a target. It shouldn’t surprise anyone if I now tell you that this ability is not only bugged but also the best version of HP-debuff the game offers.

4. The Marauder wears “Medium Armor”. No other MDPS-Class has more armor than the Marauder besides a WL who’s using Baited Trap”. The Marauder has the unique ability to make himself immune against armor penetration, if it’s needed. Thus makes the marauder become the toughest MDPS class ingame with only 1 click.

Let’s summarize why the mrd is “op”:

- More damage potential than any other MDPS-class
- Combines all debuff types and also got the best versions of those
- High combat uptime and the best class to prevent a target from kiting and force them into the assist train
- If needed the toughest MDPS-Class by swapping mutation + the hardest class to kill due to self-heal and heal-leech.

Since you can’t compare the White Lion directly with the Marauder due to the overall realm and meta balance, that’s not a logical starting point to get the right changes going through. If you want to compare classes, you have to compare those which compete with each other i.e. WL and SL or Choppa and Marauder. You have to create a synergy and make them rely on each other without making them useless when alone. But one class should never be able to pressure a full group all alone which a marauder easily can once he has access to HD. No other class is able to do that!

Now you have people like Bludfist, Shlomo, Tesq and all the other pen and paper warriors which are 100% clueless and bad at the game but they tend to act like they would actually know everything about the game and its classes. They keep spamming their stupid “balance suggestions” every time they die in PvP into every thread.

SW balance thread: They will tell you rdps classes are “UP” without any reasonable argument. They die: Fester OP, range KD OP.
WL balance thread: They will tell you WL is “UP” without any reasonable argument. They die: Pounce and Pet OP.
SM balance thread: They will tell you SM is a **** tank without any reasonable argument. They die: Spirit dmg on crit proc OP.

I mean what the ****? Should we really open a thread for everything which is good and makes you die/survive at PvP? Why don’t you complain about chosen’s moral tactic or the fact that order has whether access to a competitive hp debuff or a viable pull. Right, because you will always find unique things on both sides. That’s how a non 1:1 mirror game works. A reason why many of us like Warhammer! Yet there are a lot more important things the devs have to deal with. I guess it’s not only me who’d wish to see you guys stop crying whenever you die in PvP. Try to improve and adapt instead of being a bltch. Once your knowledge is based on something which is not Excel/Word or ingame failures you can try to discuss changes in a serious way again. That’s what I suggest! Balancing is not as easy as you wish and mirroring is not an option if you want WAR to be what it is used to be!

Until then the class balance for pen and paper warriors will stay a l2p issue!

Euan wrote:I agree with you about the baddies you mentioned

Bretin wrote:

Euan wrote:I agree with you about the baddies you mentioned

actually you are one of them jon snow

WL and Marauder are very similar so you can compare them, even more so than Marauder and Choppa.

Choppa is the one who you would compare with Slayer.

Marauder and Choppa synergize really well actually.

it is Slayer who outshines everyone

which is why you run 2x because

you can keep uncleansable Shatter Limbs up at all times, and because their undefendable aoe

will be even greater and their single target is just as deadly.

Where Marauder debuffs will not stack and he will not deal as great damage as Choppa.

On to Marauder pressuring a whole group? In what world. Marauder has single target debuffs which can be cleansed. Just think about it, they are single target and have a 5 second cooldown at least. He's not ranged either so he has to be within 5ft. They last 5-10 seconds while wounds lasts 20 not to mention you'll be switching stances locking you out of 2 of your debuffs. You really think you can apply pressure to the whole team? That's not even considering taking pressure from their tanks.

I agree with you about the baddies you mentioned

Realize that marauder isn't going to be killing a target with a guard next to him and being healed unless they are bad players or underleveled.

Also realize that its 50% of 50% which is 25%.

heal is a heal

no matter if it comes from healing potions

though marauder should not benefit from overhealing.

5 second snare on melee is crap

WL will perma snare you and pounce if you get a little breathing room.

Landaren wrote:Keep seeing people ask for pounce on the choppa

Why in gods name would super squishy choppa want to pounce away from his guard? You must be stupid.