Ability Rework Progress

[Bozzax]

TBH Magus DoTs just need their durations halved/damaged increased. DPS AMs should not be doing more damage via DoTs than a DOT-based DPS class. Never understood that.

+1
Possibly a few CDs reduced/removed so they could change targets and "assist" like all others in a group. Being able to target switch is pivotal for a class to be viable in a group. This is more or less why DD melee trains rule when you play the game of "weakest link"

[Bozzax]

Why do dots even have CDs?

They typically don't stack
They are "weaker" by design compared to any direct ability as they can be cleansed/removed
In some situations they even have drawbacks like heal on remove* or damage on remove**

* KW, CW3, BG morale self cleanse
** KOTBs remove enchant

EDIT: Ok life leech dots could be the exception but even here a lower CD then the duration would be fun
EDIT2: ID and AOE dot spam should be dealt with like all AOE on the target side

[jonathanmurphy3]

Agreed.

WS, for example, should be able to be applied on any target at any given time. A 15% damage boost on any target = epic utility. Other classes can effectively do that on demand, too (Chosen's resists/toughness/str stuff effectively increases teammates DPS, Zealot buffs, IB Oathfriend buffs, etc)

Would be awesome if turrets/demons could move, too.

[Tesq]

Why do dots even have CDs?

They typically don't stack
They are "weaker" by design compared to any direct ability as they can be cleansed/removed
In some situations they even have drawbacks like heal on remove* or damage on remove**

* KW, CW3, BG morale self cleanse
** KOTBs remove enchant

EDIT: Ok life leech dots could be the exception but even here a lower CD then the duration would be fun
EDIT2: ID and AOE dot spam should be dealt with like all AOE on the target side

why? well it depend from classes, bw/sorc dots are k with their coldown ^^
In the case of AM/SH the ap drain have a CD for some obviously reason. That said that drain should be changed to be more benefical for am/SH and being less strong vs caster classes.

I fail to understand how the proposed change to AM is different than mine(well except it's 3 stacks instead of 5 ). I'd love to see how classes looked before they were pigeonholed. Have a link/screenie/anything?

you know you wanna force am/Sh to use 5 consecutive heal and then 5 consecutive dps skill to have a working meccanics, tha't pretty automatic and still not solve the problem to be and hybrid meccanic.
If you wanna play hybrid you need to fast swap from heal to dps.

start with a dot will make you 2 point heal and 1 in dps, then you can a cast time reduction based on heal point for heal and a heal increase so that the time spent for dot is rewarded.
The meccanic reward you for play hybrid, also it let you build your own rotation. every time you use a skill that pertinence mec points are cleanse, so that if you use 2 healing you will have 1:4
This actually force you to play "hybrid" but do not force your rotation also, is not automatic, and it's up to the player choose when push for more balance heal/dps or just dps/heal.
Also this type of points assignment auto balance itself. If you spam heal you will always have 1 point in heal mec so you will not be able to bring out the full potential of the classes if only healing and same for dps.
This make possible heal more times but less value or heal les time with better value. It's still dynamc to allow you to have a better dps while either side do not push or still heal well while kiting, using dot for increase heal mec points and then fast heal thx to a4/5 or even 5/5 poitn meccanic in heal, that will boost both your healing value and reduces your cast time; making you do more things with the same AP.
This meccanics alredy work this way, this is a fast, easy fix that do not requirer work for devs. And it can prevent to make am/sh op in t1-t3 just stick it to a t4 must tactic, or simply add the incipit "from rank 40"

[Sulorie]

TBH Magus DoTs just need their durations halved/damaged increased. DPS AMs should not be doing more damage via DoTs than a DOT-based DPS class. Never understood that.

+1
Possibly a few CDs reduced/removed so they could change targets and "assist" like all others in a group. Being able to target switch is pivotal for a class to be viable in a group. This is more or less why DD melee trains rule when you play the game of "weakest link"

Quoting you both because it is just wrong. Magus is fine dmg-wise, they even have useful tactics, even if the choices are limited. People just suck with them. It's a nice rdps for small scale roaming and less depended on heals unlike sorc.
DPS AM <IS> a DoT based class as well. The difference is, AM has weaker direct damage spells, while having more potent DoT's. Magus DoT's are not weaker in general, they only have not as much "strong" ones. Additionally their DoT duration is longer, reducing the damage of individual ticks.

Where I agree is, that no DoT cooldown should be higher than 10 sec, which is a problem for the Magus.


DoT's are immediate threat, but they become one, when healers are not responding to it. Furthermore they add baseline damage, stacked with direct damage spells. He has no heal debuff but this game is made around groups.

Another advantage of dots is, that they hide important debuffs.

[Bozzax]

You can't do core game mechanics on per class basis. Dealing with dot inefficiency has to be solved for all.

As you point out yourself Drain Magic is an example of a power that is a bit to strong even at 50AP cost. So making it a tad more inline with others (non morales) and no CD is my preferred solution

As it comes to Sorc/ BW there isn't a problem since the DEATH rotation isn't coming from one power. Spamming VOP would be the worst Sorc ever. Group cleanses every 2,5-5s just 100% makes it useless

EDIT: Did mix up "duration" and "over time" columns so same but now with over time instead

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[Morf]

Changing topic a little here, i hope when Aza gets done with the rework that AM and Sham hots and absorb become healing not enchantment, as the worse healer's it always felt harsh to me that that you could shatter them.

[jonathanmurphy3]

TBH Magus DoTs just need their durations halved/damaged increased. DPS AMs should not be doing more damage via DoTs than a DOT-based DPS class. Never understood that.

+1
Possibly a few CDs reduced/removed so they could change targets and "assist" like all others in a group. Being able to target switch is pivotal for a class to be viable in a group. This is more or less why DD melee trains rule when you play the game of "weakest link"

Quoting you both because it is just wrong. Magus is fine dmg-wise, they even have useful tactics, even if the choices are limited. People just suck with them. It's a nice rdps for small scale roaming and less depended on heals unlike sorc.
DPS AM <IS> a DoT based class as well. The difference is, AM has weaker direct damage spells, while having more potent DoT's. Magus DoT's are not weaker in general, they only have not as much "strong" ones. Additionally their DoT duration is longer, reducing the damage of individual ticks.

Where I agree is, that no DoT cooldown should be higher than 10 sec, which is a problem for the Magus.


DoT's are immediate threat, but they become one, when healers are not responding to it. Furthermore they add baseline damage, stacked with direct damage spells. He has no heal debuff but this game is made around groups.

Another advantage of dots is, that they hide important debuffs.

DPS AMs have 3/4 potent ST DoTs, whereas Magus has BT, WS (and IB if you spec into the 50% crit dmg tactic).
DPS AMs also have a heal debuff. They can also heal.

I know Magus -can- deal good damage. But that is under pretty specific circumstances: a) not having WS dispelled; b) having their 20% dmg buff active from pet; c) not having half of their damage - a la DoTs - cleansed every second.

I have always been a firm believer that, given how long it takes for a Magus - when compared to other RDPS - to set up a good damage rotation, the Magus should put out a shittonne of SERIOUS damage; not fluff damage.

Magus DoTs hiding important debuffs is irrelevant, and the fact that their DoTs would be considered thus, i.e. debuff maskers, is indicative of how poor they actually were.
They can perform well in a 6-man group; but not as good as a Sorc. They don't perform very well in mass RvR (which the game purports itself to focus on), outside of one or two gimmicky utility spells, rendering their role as a 'DPS' null, void, and comical to say the least.

No class should have access to self-heals, much better utility AND similar DPS to a class designated 'DPS' as its archetype.

[Bozzax]

Changing topic a little here, i hope when Aza gets done with the rework that AM and Sham hots and absorb become healing not enchantment, as the worse healer's it always felt harsh to me that that you could shatter them.

Not disagreeing just checking you know they reduced Shatter Confidence / Destroy Confidence range even on live? Not sure they did enough though

[Bozzax]

Magus -can- deal average damage.

fixed it a bit
Even when stars aligned it was average and since CDs prevented the classes from assisting we still picked DDs