Return of Reckoning

Penril wrote:

Azuzu wrote:

It's up to the community to make the game they want to see. The devs can't force them to do they type of PvP the devs want them to do.

I kinda disagree here. Devs can actually force people to do a certain type of PvP. This is a F2P game so they are not risking losing any money if some players leave.

If it were up to me i would drastically change a LOT of things. I don't care if people leave; i prefer doing RvR with 100 people WILLING TO DO PVP instead of playing with 700-800 that avoid fights at all costs and just want easy renown and rewards.

i really just want to see what would happen if everyone gets like 10k RR per kill and everyone could have the best gear available for free. people just see this game as a personal grinder which is funny because usually grinding is in games to keep people playing so they pay their sub costs. people just got used so much to it that they forget that games are for playing instead for working

thullonse wrote:

Penril wrote:

Azuzu wrote:

It's up to the community to make the game they want to see. The devs can't force them to do they type of PvP the devs want them to do.

I kinda disagree here. Devs can actually force people to do a certain type of PvP. This is a F2P game so they are not risking losing any money if some players leave.

If it were up to me i would drastically change a LOT of things. I don't care if people leave; i prefer doing RvR with 100 people WILLING TO DO PVP instead of playing with 700-800 that avoid fights at all costs and just want easy renown and rewards.

i really just want to see what would happen if everyone gets like 10k RR per kill and everyone could have the best gear available for free. people just see this game as a personal grinder which is funny because usually grinding is in games to keep people playing so they pay their sub costs. people just got used so much to it that they forget that games are for playing instead for working

It's funny because Penril and I had a debate about letting everyone simply buy the best RvR items with silver instead of the medallion system.

Disc0nnected1 wrote:Wait, India just declared war on me, and they have Nukes so it looks like I'm going to have to give them Monotheism. Nevermind.

Gandhi is such a belligerent savage in Civ V!

thullonse wrote: i really just want to see what would happen if everyone gets like 10k RR per kill and everyone could have the best gear available for free. people just see this game as a personal grinder which is funny because usually grinding is in games to keep people playing so they pay their sub costs. people just got used so much to it that they forget that games are for playing instead for working

To be honest, they don't even need to increase the rewards. If the "base" tick of taking a keep was lowered and the reward increased depending on how heavily defended a keep was, I would find it acceptable.

Obviously we don't want ridiculous amount of renown being gained too quickly. All we want is for the rewards to scale accordingly.

Azuzu wrote:The conversation seemed to be going in the direction that only defending was good renown. I was pointing out that orvr fighting in general is great renown. It doesn't just have to be from defending a keep.

Because the situation is specifically comparing attack vs defense and is not even a question, is clear than defending at the moment triumphs attacking, that is the issues this topic is trying to adress.

That is why i was pointing out that your renown gains in roaming are irrelevant for it except to gloat about it.

Azuzu wrote:My point is people do have options, aside from defending, that give great renown. I don't think the system is perfect, I think it needs to be reworked. So the idea that the system atm forces you to defend if you want to make renown is false, in my opinion.

But a lot of people more or less lack those options, be it lack of knowledge, time, gear, not on level cap, not in a guild, socially inept, etc

Roaming is not an option for everyone and even if it was, it may not be what they find more fun, this topic is about how profitable is to defend vs to attack, that is all. And its not the only option for everyone but sadly for many, is is.

Azuzu wrote:That being said, I'm all for people taking and defending keeps. I agree that the rewards for taking keeps should be increased directly related to the amount of people inside defending. If you take 4 hours to take a heavy guarded keep, you should be rewarded for it.


So in the end, I think we mostly agree. I don't want to discourage zergers from zerging, I just don't want it to be the BEST way to get renown. Anything I can do half-afk watching movies shouldn't give the best reward.

I agree, as i said my pet peeve is how valuable rvr gear and sets seem to be to the developers that they are practially asking for a ransom on them but i also believe that the 80% wipe incident is direct consequence of the ridiculous amount of tokens asked for the rvr gear.

I truly believe that if you put a "normal", ie not 260 keeps for a full set, price on the rvr gear, we would not have so much xrealm to get them, same with sc weapons, people would do much more scs if getting the lvl 25 weapon was reasonable and not a grindfest.

Hell, i am sure its theorically impossible to get a tier 2 sc weapon without using t3 tokens.

Abolition wrote:

Disc0nnected1 wrote:Wait, India just declared war on me, and they have Nukes so it looks like I'm going to have to give them Monotheism. Nevermind.

Gandhi is such a belligerent savage in Civ V!

thullonse wrote: i really just want to see what would happen if everyone gets like 10k RR per kill and everyone could have the best gear available for free. people just see this game as a personal grinder which is funny because usually grinding is in games to keep people playing so they pay their sub costs. people just got used so much to it that they forget that games are for playing instead for working

To be honest, they don't even need to increase the rewards. If the "base" tick of taking a keep was lowered and the reward increased depending on how heavily defended a keep was, I would find it acceptable.

Obviously we don't want ridiculous amount of renown being gained too quickly. All we want is for the rewards to scale accordingly.

The cool thing is, this is a great time to work out the system, because lets be honest, rr 30 - 40 might seem like a big deal to some right now. In the big picture it's a really small amount of renown compared to the 70+ ahead of us.

Making things easier to get makes X-realming more popular. The only reason I only play on one character now is the RR 40 / SC weapon grind, if you made it easy to get I would be playing my destro characters too.

Jaycub wrote:Making things easier to get makes X-realming more popular. The only reason I only play on one character now is the RR 40 / SC weapon grind, if you made it easy to get I would be playing my destro characters too.

I think a lot of people don't even xrealm for reward, they xrealm because they don't want to feel like they are getting beat down.

Your right tho easier items makes xrealming more convenient.

Jaycub wrote:Making things easier to get makes X-realming more popular. The only reason I only play on one character now is the RR 40 / SC weapon grind, if you made it easy to get I would be playing my destro characters too.

I think you are mixing xrealming for variety with xrealming for easy tokens.

People were xrealming because the amount of tokens required asked them to spend a lot of hours, better find a way to reduce that.

If that was already a reasonable amount, people would just play and they come eventually, just like in Retail.

Is when you ask them to grind for weeks that they try to find a way to make it in days.

Hell, if anything the fact that you can get a decent gear on any of your faction chars should help with xrealming, letting you hop into the underdog faction with ease and be able to have an impact.

Xrealming is not an issue of you having chars on both factions, xrealming is an issue when people are hoping on the other faction just to win.

bloodi wrote:Stuff you said

You make a good point about people not having those options. I always look at MMOs being a social game and I'm naturally social and like grouping with others. It's easier for me to put a group together. Not everyone is like that, some people are uncomfortable with using VoIP, those people shouldn't be punished.


I think you may have jumped into the conversation too late tho! This wasn't only about attacking vs defending. If it was, my points would make no sense, as your trying to point out and would simply be egotistical boasting, which I assure you they are not.

The original post was:

thanks to the change that we get more rr while defending a keep / bo both faction have decided to not leave their keeps anymore. this is now going on for 1 week. i dont know what else has to happen to show that people will take the path of least resistance to get their stuff faster (rr40 in this case).

The original poster doesn't even mention attacking. They simply say that no one is leaving their keeps anymore and it's directly related to the pvp changes. My response was that's ridiculous, because roaming rvr is fantastic exp, solo ganking and group play. If anything the changes should encourage people to leave the warcamp at least and start pvping.

Azuzu wrote:
The original poster doesn't even mention attacking. They simply say that no one is leaving their keeps anymore and it's directly related to the pvp changes. My response was that's ridiculous, because roaming rvr is fantastic exp, solo ganking and group play.

of course open rvr yields good amount of rr but the vast majority is just keep camping now because they want the easy rr. even now in game there was a keep siege at STK going on and order had AAO with 100% while destro was just sitting in their keep and farming them with 2-3 WBs (dont know the exact number cause i didnt went on my destro toon to see how much they are). and exactly this is the problem and reason why i created this thread in the first place

also to your discussion a long time ago with Penril about the token gear: it really should be available for silver or gold because thats one thing less that people have to grind with some sort of exploit or xrealming or idk. we already have to have the RR to wear it so double dipping isnt really needed