Return of Reckoning

Perhaps you ought to have read my post properly.

Some people were saying you should never compare mirrors. I disagree with this, and I believe it is valid for Choppas to complain that they are inferior because Slayers have Inevitable Doom, which is a major advantage.

Mirrors should mean that classes are slightly different in role. It should not mean that one class can be considered to benefit a group more than the other one, because that's imbalance.

My bad i apologise for that.
But if you take the game the way you say (going with mirrors then i think thats fine, i would like to know what you think is underpowered v its mirrors tho as most of my guild has played all the class's of both sides of order and destro so they would love to help with that)

I left WAR in mid-2009, so I'm not qualified to give an analysis of that depth. My role here is only to ensure that balance threads don't get trashed and to deal with some misconceptions about balancing in general.

Occasionally I'll comment on some general issue that I've noticed and talked about with people who did play the game to the end, but otherwise, I don't plan to get involved in serious class discussions at this time.

Azarael wrote:Perhaps you ought to have read my post properly.

Some people were saying you should never compare mirrors. I disagree with this, and I believe it is valid for Choppas to complain that they are inferior because Slayers have Inevitable Doom, which is a major advantage.

Mirrors should mean that classes are slightly different in role. It should not mean that one class can be considered to benefit a group more than the other one, because that's imbalance.

yes, but when another class on the other side serves that purpose (i dont say it is right now) then giving the choppa this purpose aditionally, balance will be off to the other side. Thats what i meant with you cant only compare each class and its mirror individually but need to look at the whole picture.


the problem with pvp compared to pve: in pvp alway someone has to die in order to give the other side a kill. And as personal skill is always out of question for people, its balance that lead to their death.

and i dont agree that looking at meta numbers doesnt serve a purpose as in a whole the mix will always be statistically balanced when the numbers are high enough. but thats IMHO of course

Jezz08 wrote: ........................Sorry but if you choppas and slayers are a good mirror then you need to play both at top lvl/gear, I have played both at rr100...

Stop reading here, why does this always pop up? We are talking about T2, maybe T3 balance. T4 is a long time away.

At least I am pretty sure this is the context we are using for all these threads?

Yes, I agree. That's why I said that mirror classes should be slightly different in role, if at all. Each should have aspects that are greatly valued in some composition, and the sum total of these should ideally cause each class to be equally valuable. Those aspects need not be mirrored on the same classes on each side.

Regarding blame: That's why you don't look at average players. You look at the group compositions and classes favoured by the better players.

Regarding meta balance: The win/loss rate may be balanced, but given a large enough sample size which includes many casual and average players who do not necessarily care about optimum choice, this is obvious. It still means that the classes themselves are imbalaned, however.

Azarael wrote:Yes, I agree. That's why I said that mirror classes should be slightly different in role, if at all. Each should have aspects that are greatly valued in some composition, and the sum total of these should ideally cause each class to be equally valuable. Those aspects need not be mirrored on the same classes on each side.

Regarding blame: That's why you don't look at average players. You look at the group compositions and classes favoured by the better players.

doing non mirrored classes is a big task, no doubt. and on a game designer aspect i totally agree, each class needs a purpose in a group composition or it wont be played.

the funny thing: e.g. in Rift: Planes of Telara, the classes are totally mirrored, STILL there are balancing discussions ^^

Tiggo wrote: the funny thing: e.g. in Rift: Planes of Telara, the classes are totally mirrored, STILL there are balancing discussions ^^

ROFL!

Bozzax wrote:

Tiggo wrote: the funny thing: e.g. in Rift: Planes of Telara, the classes are totally mirrored, STILL there are balancing discussions ^^

ROFL!

Balancing issues, not because everyone could play what they wanted, but some Trees were simply stronger than others. When i played it some years ago the Riftstalker was just SO op. Same for Marksman being way better than the Archerpath. Similar stuff in the Cleric archetypes..

As Noise points out, total mirrors can still be internally imbalanced with respect to trees.