WH and WE (Discussion)

[Seravajan]

Removing KD from WH/WE is not a buff, that is a big nerf instead.

One idea I thought about is what about Kiss Stacking. Because Kisses have an internal cooldown of one sec an idea is to let the kisses stack. Up to level 30 you can only use one kiss at time. From L31 to L40 RR 39 you can use two different kisses at once. And at L40 RR 40 and later you can stack all three kisses. This will gives a bigger chance for a small burst and a small chance for a bigger burst you don't have at the moment.

[nat3s]

Remove kd ?

This right there shows you the state of people talking about classes they don't play and further more don't understand. When ideas like these reach the balance team u end up with **** up classes that make ppl quit without a second thought.

Instead of saying ppl talk about class they don't play, wait to know why he think it's better to remove kd for a melee snare. listen and try to understand rather than thinking that you know everything better than others won't hurt.

tbh back two year ago, i was one of the WE who was against the changes made by Azarael and who pushed for the removal of the changes on the aoe.

My thinking is that if WH/WE has both a KD and Snare, they'll be too strong. Add in the other buffs I mentioned:

WH kiss like procs
WH better tactics (AP from behind, 600 absorb)

If you simply added a snare you'd have a monster class. There needs to be some semblance of balance.

Adding the Snare means WH can keep up with shamans using RUN AWAY! to more reliably kill them (which the game needs) and you can use Silence as it will no longer DR with KD.

3s KD compared to a spammable snare would actually be a net buff imho.

[Krima]

This right there shows you the state of people talking about classes they don't play and further more don't understand. When ideas like these reach the balance team u end up with **** up classes that make ppl quit without a second thought.

Instead of saying ppl talk about class they don't play, wait to know why he think it's better to remove kd for a melee snare. listen and try to understand rather than thinking that you know everything better than others won't hurt.

tbh back two year ago, i was one of the WE who was against the changes made by Azarael and who pushed for the removal of the changes on the aoe.

My thinking is that if WH/WE has both a KD and Snare, they'll be too strong. Add in the other buffs I mentioned:

WH kiss like procs
WH better tactics (AP from behind, 600 absorb)

If you simply added a snare you'd have a monster class. There needs to be some semblance of balance.

Adding the Snare means WH can keep up with shamans using RUN AWAY! to more reliably kill them (which the game needs) and you can use Silence as it will no longer DR with KD.

3s KD compared to a spammable snare would actually be a net buff imho.

I mean.. you want the WH to be like a copy of WE ? plss. Again! classes are not 100% mirror.

You got see the benefits of bullets over kisses. I play both classes and bullets its more bursty than kisses. Having that guarantee spirit dmg on executuion is nice to finishe someone off with absolution.
And the heal build for WHs is superior also thanks to guarantee procs of bullets. Dragon gun heals for 1k + versus 1vX situations.

Im ok with WH having AP tactic, if you want to waste a slot tactic for ap, thats on you. But ATM there is pleny of tools to manage AP, from gear. SCE weapons give alot, sentinel jewel.. Defensive chest from sov. I never slot the AP tactic from WE, never! Not even versus AM.
WHs should have no problem with AP management if they actualy slot Flowing accusation or Prolonged confessions.. more executions means less AP you are using.

[siglade]

My thinking is that if WH/WE has both a KD and Snare, they'll be too strong. Add in the other buffs I mentioned:

WH kiss like procs
WH better tactics (AP from behind, 600 absorb)

If you simply added a snare you'd have a monster class. There needs to be some semblance of balance.

Adding the Snare means WH can keep up with shamans using RUN AWAY! to more reliably kill them (which the game needs) and you can use Silence as it will no longer DR with KD.

3s KD compared to a spammable snare would actually be a net buff imho.

Spammable snare would be too OP, a snare like other mdps have 5sec duration 10sec cd is enough. KD is actually what it make WE/WH good for solo, most of your kill should be during kd to prevent pot because as light armor u don't want a long fight but quick and clean right ? Disarm/silence in that case doesn't prevent ppl to use pot/detaunt(silence yes)/flee/moral...

In the current meta, ppl tend to go for defensive gear with very low chance to be crit, high avoidance and good hp pool so cutting kd will just make WE/WH irrevelant in solo because if the player is smart enough u won't kill him.

I prefer some change about bullet effect than a simple mirror of kiss, increase the duration of the heal outgoing debuff and rewamp init/ap for something who can give a reason to swap bullet during fight. Same goes for kiss init debuff who is clearly underperforming now with all init added on gear.

[Sarnai]

Sudden Accusation/Enfeebling Strike is supposed to be our 'snares' but the damage they do is just woefully dismal. The idea is that the threat of the damage caused by running away is too great, so they stand and fight or have to slowly withdraw. But in their current state, it's nothing more than a scratch so it's not forcing any target to make a choice.

Up the damage on both of these openers.

[Hardkoar]

Sudden Accusation/Enfeebling Strike is supposed to be our 'snares' but the damage they do is just woefully dismal. The idea is that the threat of the damage caused by running away is too great, so they stand and fight or have to slowly withdraw. But in their current state, it's nothing more than a scratch so it's not forcing any target to make a choice.

Up the damage on both of these openers.

Pretty much that, but the damage was nerfed to irrelevancy level and ppl just run away not giving 2 shits about it. Bring back the dmg to were it was just like touch of palsy and u'll see ppl think about it twice before making a run for it.

[Zxul]

Problem with upping dmg on Sudden Accusation/Enfeebling Strike- who are you planning to stop from running away exactly?

Tanks won't run away, on my chosen I'm very very happy when a wh opens on me. Healers will detaunt and heal, as usual- as a WE btw, am/rp if he got brains will just insta cleanse Enfeebling Strike since you can't cover it. Rdps die as it is if you open on them.

Who it will actually affect are mdps, thing is mdps have to move while fighting- so vs those a significant dmg buff will just mean an "I win" button. And get nerfed fast.

[Hardkoar]

Problem with upping dmg on Sudden Accusation/Enfeebling Strike- who are you planning to stop from running away exactly?

Tanks won't run away, on my chosen I'm very very happy when a wh opens on me. Healers will detaunt and heal, as usual- as a WE btw, am/rp if he got brains will just insta cleanse Enfeebling Strike since you can't cover it. Rdps die as it is if you open on them.

Who it will actually affect are mdps, thing is mdps have to move while fighting- so vs those a significant dmg buff will just mean an "I win" button. And get nerfed fast.

More dmg is always good, no matter where it comes from. It can become a tactical decision the way it is used as well, to kite tanks/mdps. It sure would be 10 times better than a snare that achieves nothing, people that get kited as we/wh either don't open on their targets and are just caught with their pants out or play without mana pots.

[Aezron]

I think increasing the damage of all the openers is a pretty neat idea.

We already know both WE and WH struggles in duels against most opponents, increasing the opener damage would help WEs/WHs shine in their supposed/only role - i.e. dueling, if landing a successful opener.

The openers can only be used from stealth, and can be cleansed.
You also can't fully incapacitate someone with the opener, either you hamper their ability to run away (SA/ES), making them stay and fight, or you hamper their ability to fight (damage on melee/casting) and making them try to run away.

It would also reinforce the class mechanic, making it more meaningful.

[Zxul]

More dmg is always nice, question is how much dmg is too much. Cause if your WE/wh is defensive enough to be able to fight for the entire duration of openers, over the duration they already do a very decent total dmg.