Return of Reckoning

wonshot wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:07 pm

Greenbeast wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:13 pm Last but not least.
I find very good that developers taking part in enteral testing and look how premades work on field.
I think it's very healthy and should be practiced more on both sides.
Even tho I don't believe that this is the case of a bias, I find it very upsetting that a develpoer that is involved in a game balancing discussion plays in a premade on order side. And these premade even states on streams that the developer is taking part in internal testing.

While this is dangerous territory I guess I'll try to adress this, as I assume it was directed at me?
Yes we had a Dev in our warband, after he applied to join as a full on guildmember, and be treated as a guildmember(and not a Dev-player!). That involves getting spammed on discord and waking up to 150+ new messages in our theorycrafting section, doing internal guild-tests in offzones where we play chars on both realms to test out how different mechanics interact with eachother. This new member had an idea about how his class would interact with the Zealot winds of insanity mechanic, and the change to this ability is probably because he realized how there was no actual counterplay to an ability prenerf did the following:

- Drained the Zealot's AP point periodically (ap pots are a thing)
- punted back all enemyplayers(24aoe cap) for the 6sec duration, without granting them punt/pull/root immunity
- undefendable ticks of damage (no longer relevant as AOE healdebuffing on crit is gone)
- allowed for the zealot to cast all normal abilities + morales while the Self-toggle of Winds of insanity is ongoing (creating a safezone while grouphealing or ressing)
- Immune to all sorts of setback, cc, interrupts while the toggle was on

Winds of Insanity needed a window where there is counterplay against it, because in a keep or funnel situation not having line of sight to super punt a zealot preemptively this one ability could stop a full M4 push. And it could be chained by other zealots as followup, potentially. (an other change could had been to just give Wind of Insanity a 6player aoe cap like Rift)

Now with the change, as I read the patchnotes. It sounds like the goal was to give a sort of counterplay reactionary and not preemptively. And I support this, and have been asking for this. But after testing the change on my own zealot, right now you cant do the following:

- Toggling on Winds of insanity you cant toggle it off again by pressing it twice. for quick kite+punt moves if you get dogpilled on.
- Escape will stop the channel if you wish to do so
- attempting to cast any other ability while Winds of insanity is toggled will now interrupt the effect (?) seemed too harsh of a nerf and if possible should be fixed!
- CC effects will now stop the effect (patchnotes read only "Hard interrupts such as taunt") so is this intented? Since the Selfblessing of Winds of insanity is still rooting the zealot in place, should it not be immune to CC but with the change, just not be immue to taunts and direct interrupts?

AOE 50%healdebuffs removed is still a massive mistake for warbandplay. And it begs the question, what is next? Aoe armor debuffs, aoe resist debuffs (they stack on destro, right? while order doesnt) aoe ini debuffs?

@Grunbe. I dont fully agree with the statement of Destro not having advantages in closecombat now with Winds of Insanity nerfed.
Destro still have Mara aoe knockdown, unmatched in unmirrored version on Order.
Meatball chargechannel still does a little babypunt serving as an aoe interrupt with a very short punt immunity
Winds of insanity is still a thing, tho much weaker and much more exposed & has counterplay now.
Snareproc from dok covernant are exelent to keep those pesky BW deathballs in place.

I would just like to eccho what others have said, think about the bigger picture here Devs with these drastic changes to aoe healdebuffs. And I truely hope to see more largescale balancing where more options become viable instead of keep removing options, as its the case with dps runepriest and zealot for warband play.

wonshot wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:33 pm

Zxul wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:05 pm Funny thing, here are two ways of countering it which I came up with within 10 seconds after reading your post, which you for some reason didn't seem to find with all that testing:

1. Have an engi place a mine from far away, just before the push.
2. Have the tanks rushing in including sms with Vaul's Tempering.

Funny isn't it.

Funny thing, but do you even warband bra? jk

Vaul's Tempering is something we thourght about, but due to the 2GCD requirement on the ability, 30foot range on partymembers and this CC immunity only lasting half of the duration of a Winds channel you cant use this ability as a reactionary tool, and with 3sec duration its too "expensive" in terms of what you give up as a prediction-tool.
I dove abit into its usefulness a week ago over here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35124&p=389305#p389305 so its not like its not been thourght about. Believe me

I do like the suggestions and how some players like to think outside of the box and actually use different classes knowledge to work around strong tools, I am all for that part of the game. But Winds of Insanity simply just didnt have any counterplay. Now it just needs to fixed so zealot can cast spells without selfinterrupting, while being able to eat interrupts from enemies and its fine id think.