Return of Reckoning

Is there any justification for choppa pull being undefendable, even if nothing else is changed?

Sulorie wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:56 pm Is there any justification for choppa pull being undefendable, even if nothing else is changed?

Nope and grunbag did say that one of the changes that he wants to make is a defense check

Aethilmar wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:48 pm As a somewhat frequent victim of it, I will say it is annoying. However, I'm okay with it in general as it adds flavor to the game and I enjoy each side having different abilities.

The only change I would make is to have the pull respect defenses i.e. you can parry/block it. Not a fan of undefendable skills in general but that just may be my tank bias showing.

Ok make get to the choppa defendable but delete KOBS morale drain or get rid of that 15% group heal tactic or nerf rampage slayer.

Destro NEEDS choppa to be strong right now when order has things that can stop it.

Aethilmar wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:48 pm As a somewhat frequent victim of it, I will say it is annoying. However, I'm okay with it in general as it adds flavor to the game and I enjoy each side having different abilities.

The only change I would make is to have the pull respect defenses i.e. you can parry/block it. Not a fan of undefendable skills in general but that just may be my tank bias showing.

lets nerf Kotb / IB / SM then / Slayer

CountTalabecland wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:25 pm Choppa undefendable pull means any kite class within 45 feet is dead

Only if they don't know how to play. If you use self-punt/punt after GTDC Choppa will lose all his tools.

CountTalabecland wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:25 pm Additionally, rampage requires rage build, pull does not.

Lol, is a 13pt ability what do you expect? Does ID drop rage? No, and it shouldn't, it's fine

CountTalabecland wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:25 pm Undefendable 360 pull > than undefendable melee attacks with 5ft range that only matters against other melees.

Yeah do you want to talk about the utility of 120 undefendable wounds debuff? Or spellbreaker? Or ID? Or shatter limbs?

CountTalabecland wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:25 pm Ever finally reach a shaman/AM only to have server lag say your melee snare is out of range and now you’re dead because charge ran out? Fun stuff.

You could not believe it but it happens with GTDC too. You don't know how many time I was at less than 5ft from target and GTDC doesn't get anything.
In addition to get in melee range doesn't mean nothing, for example WH have 100% parry so to get in melee range is useless, same goes for tank since they parry/block everything. Slayer don't have this problems.
I mean, GTDC is not garbage imo, but it not even this godly ability. For rampage is the same. Both GTDC and rampage are situational abilitiy.

Sulorie wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:56 pm Is there any justification for choppa pull being undefendable, even if nothing else is changed?

If I remember well it's undefendable since live because of mythic implementation and devs don't know how to change it

TenTonHammer wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:00 pm

Sulorie wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:56 pm Is there any justification for choppa pull being undefendable, even if nothing else is changed?

Nope and grunbag did say that one of the changes that he wants to make is a defense check

Yeah, but it sounded like he wanted to improve the skill, if adding defense check and I am wondering why.

chokeanutsman wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:06 pm

Aethilmar wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:48 pm As a somewhat frequent victim of it, I will say it is annoying. However, I'm okay with it in general as it adds flavor to the game and I enjoy each side having different abilities.

The only change I would make is to have the pull respect defenses i.e. you can parry/block it. Not a fan of undefendable skills in general but that just may be my tank bias showing.

Ok make get to the choppa defendable but delete KOBS morale drain or get rid of that 15% group heal tactic or nerf rampage slayer.

Destro NEEDS choppa to be strong right now when order has things that can stop it.

I am curious what is the thing that stops it?

Aethilmar wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:19 pm

chokeanutsman wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:06 pm

Aethilmar wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:48 pm As a somewhat frequent victim of it, I will say it is annoying. However, I'm okay with it in general as it adds flavor to the game and I enjoy each side having different abilities.

The only change I would make is to have the pull respect defenses i.e. you can parry/block it. Not a fan of undefendable skills in general but that just may be my tank bias showing.

Ok make get to the choppa defendable but delete KOBS morale drain or get rid of that 15% group heal tactic or nerf rampage slayer.

Destro NEEDS choppa to be strong right now when order has things that can stop it.

I am curious what is the thing that stops it?

Anything that stops/interrupts channels

Aethilmar wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:19 pm

chokeanutsman wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:06 pm

Aethilmar wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:48 pm As a somewhat frequent victim of it, I will say it is annoying. However, I'm okay with it in general as it adds flavor to the game and I enjoy each side having different abilities.

The only change I would make is to have the pull respect defenses i.e. you can parry/block it. Not a fan of undefendable skills in general but that just may be my tank bias showing.

Ok make get to the choppa defendable but delete KOBS morale drain or get rid of that 15% group heal tactic or nerf rampage slayer.

Destro NEEDS choppa to be strong right now when order has things that can stop it.

I am curious what is the thing that stops it?

Assuming YOU CAN'T interrupt. Are we supposed to sit here and pretend that the 15% group healing that KOBS has "can't" out-heal it?

Are you saying that KOBS dropping people's morales to ZERO (IT TAKES ONE TO DISRUPT MANY, and there is really no counter), doesn't mitigate this? It should be common sense that KOBS is RELEVANT because CHOPPA IS MELEE and is subject to morale drain. This isn't even counting the notion that rampage Slayer is apparently similarly broken.

In RvR, you still have to back up choppa pull with morales. Apparently, rampage slayer is just as bad too. Therefore why does it have to "defendable?" You can get so much parrys and blocks in the game, it's insane. If you nerf Choppa, you nerf Destro RvR. That simple, and if we were to follow this "make this defendable" logic, then nerf other order cancers as well.

In 1v1, Order is already superior (order has better stun and burst classes I.E. SW, SM, WL), why do you want choppa to get nerfed in 1v1 and in RvR? And it's not like you can't stop using instant cast skills when you get pulled in a 1v1, and they don't have a gap closer. Gap closer + actual knock down and burst is much harder to fight against than getting pulled and then knocked down by a Choppa because of Choppa gets punted? No gap closer. This should be common sense. I don't understand why Order players are "complaining about 1v1s" when Order is objectively superior in 1v1s and is very oppressive in multiple point SCs because of it.