How is the WL after the patch?

[Koha]

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Wrong the Guardian Tree focuses on the WL assisting the pet, therefore the pet should be stronger than in other trees, the WL own dps won't be as high because they should be stacking wounds/toughness, when you kill the pet the Guardian WL is done for as they wont have crit %, CC, parry, etc.

Again what you need to understand is that they have made the class weaker than before (Torque already confirmed this in this thread) and recently more balanced with the Guardian Tree changes this literally takes Force Opportunity out of their Guardian builds reducing their dps significantly . The other 2 trees Axe/Hunt are where the pet is relatively weak but the WL dps is way higher and can have a perma 50% heal debuff .

I don't see where I've said that the guardian specced is not assisting his pet.

You're saying that I need to understand ''they have made the class weaker than before'':
- how can one ''understand you'' without any explanation of what weaker is for you (in exchange of what) and what before you're talking (last patch previous one...)

- Guardian one year ago was the best burst solo spec but was enable to 1v4 on a regular basis (not that tanky).

Anyway don't just suppose that others are not playing more than one class. All my char slots are taken and very few are not 40RR40+, got a RR42 WL ''Ronron'' too and enjoy it when I play it (one year old WL not just a flavor-of-the-month reroll).

[catholicism198]

Spoiler:

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Why do you think I made it so they took less splash damage? So I could adjust individual survivability down and NOT reduce overall longevity, its never been easier to kill a WL pet so long as you TARGET it which is why I have been telling people to do it but there is a massive wall of misinformation from some people and some people think trying to burst down a tank spec guardian is a good idea, it isnt. The only pet which would even be approaching the older levels of survivability are high axeman WLs using trained to threaten.
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Taking away splash damage sounds indeed as the best way to balance survivability of pets (and not increasing its survivability further).

For the time to kill and dps of the pet, I think the real issue is not the pet DPS, the issue is that a Tank spec Guardian is having a pet doing the damage it used to do with a dps spec (might be a bit less if you say so) = butter and butter money.

Can any other class do that ? invest massively in defensive stats and increase the damage of its pet ?

Tank spec Guardian should mean at least a glass canon pet, which implies :
- Lion master should be the front line, preparing and softening the target <> sending the pet for fetch in a melee train, or hiding and waiting for the pet to do the job
- Lion master should guard his pet (new ability is going that way, which sounds good)
- Lion's pet should have a time to kill of 3 sec maximum for any glass canon dps = high risk = high reward (not ''guarded'') and should not have a resolute-defense-like when no other class can have it.
- Lion's pet should not run faster than players except with charge, it's the master's job now = pounce snare etc...

Wrong the Guardian Tree focuses on the WL assisting the pet, therefore the pet should be stronger than in other trees, the WL own dps won't be as high because they should be stacking wounds/toughness, when you kill the pet the Guardian WL is done for as they wont have crit %, CC, parry, etc.

Again what you need to understand is that they have made the class weaker than before (Torque already confirmed this in this thread) and recently more balanced with the Guardian Tree changes this literally takes Force Opportunity out of their Guardian builds reducing their dps significantly . The other 2 trees Axe/Hunt are where the pet is relatively weak but the WL dps is way higher and can have a perma 50% heal debuff .

Pretty sure that's what he was saying.

Guardian Spec should = High Damage Pet with Reduced Durability- Hence the Guard ability and the Calming Presence tactic
Everything else = Durable Pet with Low Damage.

...but the Pet's Durability is actually increased based on the number of points you spend in the Guardian Mastery so its Damage output and Durability are both increased instead of just one or the other like with other careers.

[catholicism198]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Wrong the Guardian Tree focuses on the WL assisting the pet, therefore the pet should be stronger than in other trees, the WL own dps won't be as high because they should be stacking wounds/toughness, when you kill the pet the Guardian WL is done for as they wont have crit %, CC, parry, etc.

Again what you need to understand is that they have made the class weaker than before (Torque already confirmed this in this thread) and recently more balanced with the Guardian Tree changes this literally takes Force Opportunity out of their Guardian builds reducing their dps significantly . The other 2 trees Axe/Hunt are where the pet is relatively weak but the WL dps is way higher and can have a perma 50% heal debuff .

Pretty sure that's what he was saying.

Guardian Spec should = High Damage Pet with Reduced Durability- Hence the Guard ability and the Calming Presence tactic
Everything else = Durable Pet with Low Damage.

...but the Pet's Durability is actually increased based on the number of points you spend in the Guardian Mastery so its Damage output and Durability are both increased instead of just one or the other like with other careers.

You know of course that the points return some of the value I took out as base right? There's no point arguing that the pet is tougher because as I said it's NEVER been WEAKER. Guardian doesn't return defensive stats.

Again this is all just players spreading misinformation and you seem to have ignored my earlier post that you even quoted in that block. You cannot claim the pet is what I have said it isn't.

No...I didn't say that. I just increased the coherency level of the other guy's post- hence the "Pretty sure that's what he was saying" bit.
I only know about the careers I've played- have leveled to r40/rr40

[wereku]

Spoiler:

What people need to realise is I have no bias at all, I hate everyone equally, my goal is balance across the board, for trees to be viable even if its not "meta", for the tops of trees to be more valuable than the low hanging fruit. A whole lot of what I do is smoke and mirrors, everyone fixated on guardian because it was more obvious, latched onto the aoe immunity which became lesser damage and as a result lost bearing on where the class was but the fact remains, in RoR the WL may have more versatility but it has never been weaker, you just dont know why and when/if I bother to explain the whole system whines will be meaningless because its then a case of "well you didnt complain about it for the last 6 months in playtests".

Well lets just look at that class. Highest mobility mdps with highest and shortest ramp up time burst without being the easiest to kill (not even light armor). Now has a spec to go full deff and still burst every light player down without that they could do a thing against it. I don't know but this is unbalanced by definition the recent change goes in the right direction (can't have all the nice things anymore) but as long as a WL is compleatly negating the biggest advantage of a rdps this thing is going to be imbalanced.

Sure you could have a pocket guard always being rdy to keep you up but now your guard is 90% of the fight doing nothing while it would be very important to be upfront slowing stuff doing things. This is esp. imbalanced since the other site does not have to mind if our meeletrain is going towards their rdps not only are they slowed af (therefore maybe not even be able to get him) their tank also gets tons of time to react aswell (even if you get there it's guarded). So what can you do pull but it's disrupt based therefore working far less often and you pull it closer to their tank since he can be upfront. For wl it's just win win if not pocket guarded pounce and burst down so quick there is hardly anything the healers could do or he has a pocketguard pull and since it's parry based this will work and you will pull away from the pocket guard.

Then the pet might be easier to kill but I still need a full sorc rotation (5s to all hit) to kill the pet while the pet needs 2-3s to kill me how is that any balanced.

Then this statement oO but the player does no dmg at all if he plays guardian wl is so full of bs if the guardian player is clever he goes for 3 domi 3 conq 3 bl which in the end he lacks (toughness talis) about 200 str to axeman wls therefore still aa critting for 1k+ yeah so low dmg. They only are lower if they go for Fm and Co tactics which you do not need in a group incrrased wounds and toughness are more then enough to be very hardly killed under guard. The burst of "good" (3-5 button burst) is overall higher then axeman the reason guardian wl is not prefered over axeman is simple one has 30s CD on the most important skill for the burst the other 10s.

Hyperbole and whine from a shill account is not welcome. - Torque

[altharion1]

Don't engage a WL that is built specifically for small scale encounters, in a small scale encounter. Its like a WB that is speced for single target engaging a full AoE WB. Accept that your spec or way of playing will always have a hard counter, adapt and evolve.

Play in a group with guard and heals, and you wont have to get farmed by solo WLs anymore.

[daniilpb]

Don't engage a WL that is built specifically for small scale encounters, in a small scale encounter. Its like a WB that is speced for single target engaging a full AoE WB. Accept that your spec or way of playing will always have a hard counter, adapt and evolve.

Play in a group with guard and heals, and you wont have to get farmed by solo WLs anymore.

Pretty much this. Simple rock-paper-scissors game. There are builds and even classes that suppose to win 1v1 or small scale situations. Defensive Mara, WE/WH, some of tanks (kotbs and chosen definitely can kill almost anyone in 1v1 situation), Engi and Magi are very strong in 1v1 if they are spec-ed right (Magus can easily shut down any guardian WL) etc. Even a sorc (aka Korze) can win most of 1v1 fights.

[Fallenkezef]

Orvr is about numbers, 1v1 comes down to skill and gear.

WL is strong as, Torque keeps pointing out, long as pet is up.

Focus the freaking pet then kill the dress wearing pansy with the silly looking axe.

Seriously, Dwarf and Chaos axes say "I will break you", Elf axes say "my life-partner made this for this week's vegan renn faire"

[Kobra]

Logged in to check, and got steamrolled by endless WL's and SM's in SC's.

Seems like they are the same to me. I'll check back in another month.

[Foomy44]

Logged in to check, and got steamrolled by endless WL's and SM's in SC's.

Seems like they are the same to me. I'll check back in another month.

In case you missed it, SM's double spirit debuff got taken away a while ago, don't hear people complainin about em too often nowadays.

[Koha]

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You know of course that the points return some of the value I took out as base right? There's no point arguing that the pet is tougher because as I said it's NEVER been WEAKER. Guardian doesn't return defensive stats.

Again this is all just players spreading misinformation and you seem to have ignored my earlier post that you even quoted in that block. You cannot claim the pet is what I have said it isn't.

Pet is weaker than ever. You mean has less hitpoints and less survivability than ever (weaker does not mean weak neither).
Problem is that the master has never been ''stronger ever''.

(I mean more resistant with too little loss of dps).