Return of Reckoning

Azarael wrote:Stop using "bad faith" as if you understand what it means. Noone has assumed bad faith. We are having a discussion, and the response to a discussion is not to sling around "bad faith!" (nope) "who are you to say that!?" (a player making an argument which you have to counter and disprove) and "I'm sorry that you don't want to hear us" (nope, your assumption). None of that is helpful.

If you can offer actual counterpoints to what is being discussed, do so, but do not start making baseless accusations if you're unable to, no matter how much you fear changes which may not even be implemented.

Okay, i apologize (i corrected it for Luth btw), but 2 or 3 people agreed about what i say on this thread (especially about WHs), and you're the only one who say you're not convinced, so it's a bit unfair. You proclaim "they should not do so much damage" but it is how the sorceresse were implemented, and the backlash is something to balance it. Even on RoR, i died because of too many backlashes (not even at 100 !) and taking the assist, and healers was not able to keep me alive.

Again, sorry if you think i disrespect you, maybe my blood boil a bit too much =)

Yes. What's in dispute is whether or not the backlash mechanic is actually enough of a drawback to balance the class' damage in the endgame. Since the original developers were of the opinion that it wasn't, I believe the question is really "in order to balance it, what should be done?" rather than "is there even a problem?"

Telen wrote:

Sulorie wrote:You forget to acknowledge that sorc/bw deal only little damage sub 71 mechanic points. Saying that they don't need to sit at 100 is like ignoring the facts.

Are you ignoring that fact the mythic devs even said it was not intended to sit at 100?

Uh, So? Are you some kind of purist, suggesting untested mechanic created 8-9 years ago and never implemented? There was 5 years of pvp balancing based off the sitting at 100 mechanic and you could only go all-out at 100 with support and non breakdowns in combat.

I dump mechanic all the time on RoR, especially when combat breaks down, i.e. I'm low health, healers are being chased or rezzing. or a target is low, and I have time to cast low mechanic spells at him when I need to conserve health. The assumption the mechanic isn't harmful to a casters health is in current state is ridiculous. 20% for 1 global can quickly become 40% twice in a row. As a caster you aren't always at 100% health. Getting half your life ripped away when a healer cannot give you attention creates huge decisions.

As the original poster said, it seems broken. I was casting last night and all of a sudden I lost like 60% of my health instantly, it felt like I got fester bombed but there was no one on me. I took a screenshot but haven't looked yet what happened. I know I saw a ton of red though that i assume was 3 combustions out of no where.

Telen wrote:

Sulorie wrote: Slayer/Choppa lose half their defenses, Sorc/Bw already have low defense values like all robe classes. Not being able to receive serious heals(only 25% like mentioned), while unable to drop comb/dm, when knockdowned, is an even greater drawback than playing Choppa/Slayer with their current mechanic.

Comparing the survivability of an mdps and rpds. Oh dear me. Strawman?

Are you aware how easy it was to catch someone? You can kite around as RDPS, but your damage drops.
Twice phys armor and 25% extra damage or equal phys armor and 50% extra damage with half resists is the comparison here. Easy to manage, while you can keep your damage up as MDPS.
MDPS groups in T4 had serious issues with their survivability against RDPS setups...oh wait, it was the other way around.


Attacking someone with less than 71 comb/dm is a waste of global cooldowns, because you only scratch them. Guess why you increase it while out of combat in later tiers to be ready, when the fight starts, without losing time.

Mez wrote: There was 5 years of pvp balancing...

Is that a joke?

There was no balancing for 5 years. It was only at the end when Jeff and Carrie, who spent most of her time playing wow or slagging off War at press events, were moved that we got a producer that actually acknowledged these issues.

Also in the lower tiers with broken healgrids and no gheals the mechanic might have an impact. When wp/dok get their gheal there will be no drawback to it.

Sulorie wrote: MDPS groups in T4 had serious issues with their survivability against RDPS setups...oh wait, it was the other way around.

That was an issue with gheal when coupled with guard from wp/dok with bugged talis vs the terrible endgame dps of the other rdps. bw/sorc had no problems at all top damage and dbs vs mdps it was the other rdps that really struggled.

Tbh i don't know why people complain about Sorcs/BWs. They were OP the first year or 2, but they were definitely not a threat in 1.4.8 (at least if you were in a semi-decent group with healers that cleansed).

If people want to nerf/fix some classes, i would start with Slayer/Mara/DoK/WP.

Mez wrote: There was 5 years of pvp balancing based off the sitting at 100 mechanic and you could only go all-out at 100 with support and non breakdowns in combat.

They took several years to realize that something is wrong with AOE bombing and this discussion is mainly about the bw/sorc who have basic support (i.e. heals).

Mez wrote: I dump mechanic all the time on RoR, especially when combat breaks down, i.e. I'm low health, healers are being chased or rezzing. or a target is low, and I have time to cast low mechanic spells at him when I need to conserve health. The assumption the mechanic isn't harmful to a casters health is in current state is ridiculous. 20% for 1 global can quickly become 40% twice in a row. As a caster you aren't always at 100% health. Getting half your life ripped away when a healer cannot give you attention creates huge decisions.

It's the bw/sorcs in late game and organized groups that are the problem, not scenarios in T1 with random members.

Mez wrote: As the original poster said, it seems broken. I was casting last night and all of a sudden I lost like 60% of my health instantly, it felt like I got fester bombed but there was no one on me. I took a screenshot but haven't looked yet what happened. I know I saw a ton of red though that i assume was 3 combustions out of no where.

There is a basic combat log in the chatwindow, if you want a good combat log statistic i would suggest the "enemy" addon.

I just don't understand why you are proposing radical new mechanics when clearly of the 10,000 changes to the classes combustion was never looked at. You are suggesting untested patching rather than a straight restoration project. I'm sure there was a lot of things people wanted to do. I mean if everyone wants to keep the game going as a continuation, I guess we could find all the devs on twitter and interview them on what we can do.

I think the suggestion, either way, is not great, and too drastic without testing. If the argument sitting at 100 mechanic is fine when you have heals, the damage does not matter.

As it stands, it IS CURRENTLY bad enough to dump, or decide to not cast (hang on to it mode) and scramble when you don't have those group heals.

So if you want to start blasting casters for 30% to 33% of their health bar rather than 20%. The decision isn't weather or not to dump mechanic, it's weather or not to play a SW instead. The kind of change you propose needs to be tested at end game, at level 40, max RR in group, scenario and RvR (keep defense/offensive) settings. Why is this tangent even here and building pages? Combustion is broke, back to OP's post. I'll try to contribute some screenshots if I can get some this week.

Telen, and your just mad my BW is top damage over your AM. Once they fix flames of rhuin adding to my damage when other players in/out of the scenario, don't worry, you'll be back on top. Technically ou already are, especially with the 3 free dots =your dead from 100 feet rotations. But with the damage & healing gross numbers, your not just on top but your way on top. The pretty crits may not be there, but the constant running away isn't either.