Lets try to avoid generic stats debuff/buff ideas as theyre usually covered by Natures Blade.
I'm still leaning more towards the personal Crit DAMAGE increase similar to Blorcs passive crit damage increase tactic, but in personal proc form.
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:58 pm
by dansari
Penril wrote:
dansari wrote: with this change we really need to consider how to make SM more viable for warband play.
Not really. Look at past WH/WE proposals.
Could you clarify?
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:02 pm
by Axerker
The Swordmaster is plenty fine in Warbands, even without HB. Are their more optimal classes for specific roles? Sure. Swordmaster is the most damaging tank on Order side. That's a trade-off for being a bit less tanky. You can't make them tankier without lowering their damage output, or they'd be too strong.
They still have everything that makes a Tank in WBs. Hold the Line, Guard, and CC which is 98% of your job as a tank. Put away the 2H and pick up a shield, and they perform the same role as the other tanks, just take slightly more damage.
Edit: I had to look up if Swordmasters could even use Shields, because I've literally never seen a single one without a 2H.
But we're getting off-topic.
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:03 pm
by GodlessCrom
dansari wrote:
Penril wrote:
dansari wrote: with this change we really need to consider how to make SM more viable for warband play.
Not really. Look at past WH/WE proposals.
Could you clarify?
100% certain it is a "not all classes are viable in all situations" deal.
I for one welcome the return of IB/slayer meta from live
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:05 pm
by Penril
I don't want to derail. So just look for past WE/WH proposals and read why they were declined (namely, the ones that asked for buffs to be more useful in warbands.
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:05 pm
by peterthepan3
Spoiler:
Penril wrote:Last time I say this: We are NOT discussing if they should stack or not. That decision has already been made.
We are discussing possible changes to HB since it won't stack anymore.
So it's gone from 99% to 100%, disregarding that it, i.e. spirit debuff, only benefits a few classes - most of which are niche/underperforming specs? No conversation whatsoever? Is that how we do balance now?
These kneejerk changes are frankly getting monotonous now. Moderate this comment/punish me as you deem fit.
Also - all classes should be viable in every environment worth balancing around, ranging from group play up to, and including, warband play. Nonsensical to suggest otherwise.
Balance is decided by a few people in the team (hint: i'm not even one of them). Not the players. The thing is, no one asked me to make this thread: I created it to see if you guys could come up with something interesting; something that maybe could be better than what is planned atm. You should stop whining and thank me instead.
Since I don't want to lock this thread (yet) I will just moderate posts like this one from now on.
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:16 pm
by trebla
Spoiler:
Again another useless change proposal because some made up theoretical if "a (insert class) did this this would happen". Nothing is wrong with SM, and changing Heavens blade because you think their is a problem with double debuff stacking that in any case requires a SM to be danger close. A knock back, parry, knock down snare so one all make this double stacking you speak off situational. On top of that I have not seen the double debuff stack with KotBS as kotbs always has a stronger debuff then SM if spec into it. Further more I have NEVER seen SM/kotbs duo in WB with BWs melting destro. This is all theoretical with solid evidence to back this assertion. Again we have a classic Im a dev and i'll do this if you like it or not. You already stated that it will get removed your here fishing in the community for possible solutions. At no point have I ever seen in any in game channel ppl saying "SM is way OP".
And I have played countless hours with 7 40/40+ on destro.
Here is a proposal why dont you change the chosen/kotbs Aura and leave the SM alone. your making changes to a core ability to a class that is in a stable place. I have seen for the last few months nothing but changes to destro class and slight reduction in Order classes ability. Blah BLah destro bias? nah I dont think so but if you devs stop playing destro for a few and listening to the players on destro that you covet who have VERY few hours played on order making suggestion that a class is OP and this is why with a sample size that is minuscule.
BlueBlade out
Yeah, BlueBlade out.
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:17 pm
by dansari
Penril wrote:I don't want to derail. So just look for past WE/WH proposals and read why they were declined (namely, the ones that asked for buffs to be more useful in warbands.
Yes, got it now.
GodlessCrom wrote:
dansari wrote:
Penril wrote:
Not really. Look at past WH/WE proposals.
Could you clarify?
100% certain it is a "not all classes are viable in all situations" deal.
I for one welcome the return of IB/slayer meta from live
That makes sense, and honestly this is what it will become.
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:23 pm
by dansari
Spoiler:
trebla wrote:Again another useless change proposal because some made up theoretical if "a (insert class) did this this would happen". Nothing is wrong with SM, and changing Heavens blade because you think their is a problem with double debuff stacking that in any case requires a SM to be danger close. A knock back, parry, knock down snare so one all make this double stacking you speak off situational. On top of that I have not seen the double debuff stack with KotBS as kotbs always has a stronger debuff then SM if spec into it. Further more I have NEVER seen SM/kotbs duo in WB with BWs melting destro. This is all theoretical with solid evidence to back this assertion. Again we have a classic Im a dev and i'll do this if you like it or not. You already stated that it will get removed your here fishing in the community for possible solutions. At no point have I ever seen in any in game channel ppl saying "SM is way OP".
And I have played countless hours with 7 40/40+ on destro.
Here is a proposal why dont you change the chosen/kotbs Aura and leave the SM alone. your making changes to a core ability to a class that is in a stable place. I have seen for the last few months nothing but changes to destro class and slight reduction in Order classes ability. Blah BLah destro bias? nah I dont think so but if you devs stop playing destro for a few and listening to the players on destro that you covet who have VERY few hours played on order making suggestion that a class is OP and this is why with a sample size that is minuscule.
BlueBlade out
Bruh. Way too aggro. First off, knight aura + HB + WoH all stack together. I naively didn't know that before, tested it out, and realized that it does. Secondly, our NA experience doesn't translate into EU experience. I, like you, never see SM/knight duos in warbands, but that doesn't mean EU doesn't use it (the difference of playing 4 wb v 4 wb instead of ~1 wb v ~1 wb). I agree that triple debuffing is too strong in rvr, and we can either provide good ideas, or we can preemptively whine about a change (one is good for the server, the other gets the thread locked )
Re: Heaven's Blade
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:24 pm
by live4treasure
What if it procs an effect similar to Skull Thumpa I think it was called, an ability that causes every attack on the target for the next x seconds to deal x additional spirit damage?
