Return of Reckoning

Penril wrote:How hard someone is hit depending on his archetype is irrelevant to this thread. And if you are that worried about tanks dying to FA, just disagree with the "Undefendable" proposal and point out that Hold the Line is one of few counters to FA.

well , i disagre with the skill have both 100% resistences bypass and being undefeatble, not if the skill became:

-undefeatble
-cd reduced/ spamable
-casted faster
-base dmg get increase

EDIT:

those are things you can work with as a SW and enemy can work with his own stuff, look fireball + undeatble tactic+ close quarter combo, it can do its nice dmg, now image the same thing from 100 feet for sw. But still all of this dosent't ignore 100% resistences.

So like:
-guerrilla tactic : FA cast time is reduced to 1,5/2 sec and is undefeatble
-enahcned arrow: drop a bit the % ignores (i'd say between 50 % to 80% is fine) and allow a CD reduction of 5 sec on both FA and FAw
-increase FA base dmg

(basically is 1-b plus half 1-a OP proposal)

Double posted

Tesq wrote:

Penril wrote:How hard someone is hit depending on his archetype is irrelevant to this thread. And if you are that worried about tanks dying to FA, just disagree with the "Undefendable" proposal and point out that Hold the Line is one of few counters to FA.

well , i disagre with the skill have both 100% resistences bypass and being undefeatble, not if the skill became:

-undefeatble
-cd reduced/ spamable
-casted faster
-base dmg get increase

those are things you can work with as a SW and enemy can work with his own stuff, look fireball + undeatble tactic+ close quarter, he can do his dmg, now image the same thing from 100 feet. But still all of this dosent't ignore 100% resistences.

I agree with not making it undefendable, but I can't find any actual proposal about reducing cooldown? I don't think anyone wants spammable festers. As for fireball+cq spam, why don't you go make a party for that and see how good it is in practice? and I mean without using boiling blood, ignite or any other dot. I'd argue the whole close quarter+x st skill is rather irrelevant as it's just dumb theoretical stuff. Fester and WW on the other hand MIGHT be good if the cast time was reduced, but I'm pretty sure people would still just play a BW and with much greater success. Can always just code it to not work with WW anyways.

Edit: And for the love of god, start editing out of the main post/put a note for what's edited, kinda hard to reply to constantly changing posts.

Edit 2 in response to Tesq edit:

Tesq wrote:So like:
-guerrilla tactic : FA cast time is reduced to 1,5/2 sec and is undefeatble
-enahcned arrow: drop a bit the % ignores (i'd say between 50 % to 80% is fine) and allow a CD reduction of 5 sec on both FA and FAw

(basically is 1-b plus half 1-a OP proposal)

The second you start touching the bypass value the overall burst of the spec needs to be retuned, as I've said before it just barely has the damage to down anyone as it is now. So this would also require 2b to be implemented in one way or another. So I still firmly believe 1a is the easiest, safest and most balanced change. And I believe it was stated already that all arguments about fester doing the same damage to tanks as squishies (this is not even true) are irrelevant, why are you still pushing to have the resist bypass nerfed so your main archetype doesn't have to deal with it?

I want spammable Festering Arrow with 2 sec cast time as 13 point ability in scout tree with Enchanted Arrows bypass 50% of victims resistances. But Im against idea of an doing from this undefendable attack.

Skalier wrote:I want spammable Festering Arrow with 2 sec cast time as 13 point ability in scout tree with Enchanted Arrows bypass 50% of victims resistances. But Im against idea of an doing from this undefendable attack.

But why, just why even think about that? You might get pretty numbers on SC scoreboards, but all your killingpower is gone. You basically just end up throwing two festers doing +/- the same damage you do today with one, with twice the chance to get dodged, and at that point your first fester is irrelevant anyways as all the damage has been healed anyways, your burst has been telegraphed by a premature spike and your burst is gonna hit like a wet noodle compared to a succesful rotation with 100% bypass on fester. After that you can spam fester all you want without ever denting a healed/guarded target until the rest of your rotation is up again, and at that point you again lack the burst to actually down someone anyways.

lefze wrote:

Skalier wrote:I want spammable Festering Arrow with 2 sec cast time as 13 point ability in scout tree with Enchanted Arrows bypass 50% of victims resistances. But Im against idea of an doing from this undefendable attack.

But why, just why even think about that? You might get pretty numbers on SC scoreboards, but all your killingpower is gone. You basically just end up throwing two festers doing +/- the same damage you do today with one, with twice the chance to get dodged, and at that point your first fester is irrelevant anyways as all the damage has been healed anyways, your burst has been telegraphed by a premature spike and your burst is gonna hit like a wet noodle compared to a succesful rotation with 100% bypass on fester. After that you can spam fester all you want without ever denting a healed/guarded target until the rest of your rotation is up again, and at that point you again lack the burst to actually down someone anyways.

Is it just me, or is every arguement you do form a solo/pug perspective? It always sounds like this.
All the time the arguements sound like: I cant kill someone on my own, i cant get away when i have no CC further then 65ft etc etc

I think you are right, 100% bypass is better or actually necessary if it is to kill someone who has a guard and 2 healers and if it is to compete with other stances. And if you get guard then with Expert Skirmisher It can be really good on premade. Some rotation ideas seem strange to me.

Skalier wrote:I think you are right, 100% bypass is better or actually necessary if it is to kill someone who has a guard and 2 healers and if it is to compete with other stances. And if you get guard then with Expert Skirmisher It can be really good on premade. Some rotation ideas seem strange to me.

This. While soloing or pugging spamming a high damage skill is fine, but against any competent opposition it just doesn't work without landing several skills in a short amount of time, aka burst.

Edit: @panzer As I've said before, the burst the class has now barely has the damage to kill anyone by itself. I mostly argue from a perspective where you are at least assisting one additional dps. The thing here is that even though your damage might be pretty decent on a squishy unguarded target when you have plenty of time to pick a target and time stuff, when assisting on someone else the spec functions extremely poorly as the whole concept of relying on a single, huge casttime to have meaningful burst is crap against any form of organized players that can swap guards, pop cooldowns, press movement keys or interact with the game in any way. The second you loose your target, IF your fester didn't get cast which it sometimes does but so late it has zero effect, you can maybe contribute to the next attempted kill, but right now the pacing of the game mostly makes you spend all your time in an endless cycle of trying and failing to get off a full rotation. And even if you get the fester off, the chance of getting off any additional spells is really damn small as you have just stood still for at least 3 seconds while your target is very likely moving away from you. When pugging things might work the same way as when assisting, but not sure. Soloing with the spec is pointless, the class has much better specs.

lefze wrote:as I've said before it just barely has the damage to down anyone as it is now

psst this is why I suggested 2b.

- I agree that the 100% bypass on EA is necessary.
- I agree that an undefendable FA could be OP and is likely unnecessary.
- I disagree that moving 1a to Guerrilla Training will be enough of a buff to warrant speccing full Scout.
- In my opinion, the 1s cast time decrease is the bare minimum of what should be done, and it should be added to EA, or at least coupled with a damage increaser through GT that makes GT worth speccing.

dansari wrote:

lefze wrote:as I've said before it just barely has the damage to down anyone as it is now

psst this is why I suggested 2b.

- I agree that the 100% bypass on EA is necessary.
- I agree that an undefendable FA could be OP and is likely unnecessary.
- I disagree that moving 1a to Guerrilla Training will be enough of a buff to warrant speccing full Scout.
- In my opinion, the 1s cast time decrease is the bare minimum of what should be done, and it should be added to EA, or at least coupled with a damage increaser through GT that makes GT worth speccing.

As was vaguely hinted to in a post above, the class doesn't need to be able to kill someone by itself. And I completely agree with that, 1a is more than enough to enable the class to assist properly.

More damage means it will melt stuff by itself, same casttime leaves it in the same spot it is in now. As long as the class can assist properly I don't really care, but more damage will make it way more dangerous than it should be imo.