[Shaman] Totally Un-viable?

[freshour]

Well I understand that part. I was more so using that in my example of me trying to find other ways to make the healing work. It is such a fun class with so many different options that I tend to drop like 50 gold on it and keep trying a few different gear/RR/mastery respecs until I find something that I don't mind running for a few sc's.

[Arconnn]

Well I understand that part. I was more so using that in my example of me trying to find other ways to make the healing work. It is such a fun class with so many different options that I tend to drop like 50 gold on it and keep trying a few different gear/RR/mastery respecs until I find something that I don't mind running for a few sc's.

To be honest, the thing that affects Shaman more than anything is disrupting the ap drain, just make sure you're casting it on the MDPS and you should be ok

It's pretty simple to heal, HoT's on everyone, Toughness buff on guy getting focused (don't spam this, will drain your ap fast) spam Aoe heal or ST when it's only 1 guy getting focused, Ere we go off of cooldown, Sticky Feets off cooldown, Cleanse off cooldown
http://www.ror.builders/career/shaman/s ... ,5301,5310 this is the spec I usually run, swap out crit heal for Detaunt if dying a lot, switch out Run away for Detaunt if you're getting locked down too heavy, swap out crit heal for extra ere we go tactic middle tree

You need good gear / rr for crit chance so your restorative burst is always on you, if your ap drain gets disrupted then you're in a very difficult spot, but keep it on mdps and should be fine
remember, ap pots 1 minute cooldown

the benefit of shaman is the fact that you have a healer that essentially wont die / pointless to ever switch on
which is more valuable than you think
yes it's the weaker of the three healers, but it still has a spot in a group from time to time

I mean, people still run AM's right? and that's essentially a **** shaman

[freshour]

I agree with you completely! I've been trying to work it into our groups. My only struggle that I run into is that DoK/Zealot is hands down our best setup currently. I think Order gets away with running WP simply because it has the 20% increased effectiveness in healing that can make up for the amazingness that is a RP. You combine the zealot blessing + DoK aoe HOT and group heal it is a hard combo to wager a shaman over. But in RVR I think two zealots or maybe even zealot Shammy is better.

I am also looking more into morale usage (I know a bit late on this one). For instance we run a melee dok melee train quite a bit. I assist off the mara, however the DoK's damage morale is M3, so in theory it would need a shaman to get to that morale quicker since chosen has had its morale pump nerfed to kingdom come. But if I can figure out how to make Shammy work, then I can help another player with theirs as usually people have an alt shammy since it is such a fun class. This would allow us to use our morale dumps on a target of choice as DoK/Mara with the ICD nerf has significantly less burst than the majority of order melee duos (WL/WH) (WL/SL) and so forth especially when you add in an SM using M2 pounce - it ends up being a lot haha.

But thank you for the tips, I'm going to keep trying it out and hopefully I can come up with something that is more viable in SC's as I totally agree with you a shaman in RVR is extremely hard to kill. But I was told order runs AM still because AM has less defense but is able to put out more HPS than a shaman currently can.

[Arconnn]

I agree with you completely! I've been trying to work it into our groups. My only struggle that I run into is that DoK/Zealot is hands down our best setup currently. I think Order gets away with running WP simply because it has the 20% increased effectiveness in healing that can make up for the amazingness that is a RP. You combine the zealot blessing + DoK aoe HOT and group heal it is a hard combo to wager a shaman over. But in RVR I think two zealots or maybe even zealot Shammy is better.

I am also looking more into morale usage (I know a bit late on this one). For instance we run a melee dok melee train quite a bit. I assist off the mara, however the DoK's damage morale is M3, so in theory it would need a shaman to get to that morale quicker since chosen has had its morale pump nerfed to kingdom come. But if I can figure out how to make Shammy work, then I can help another player with theirs as usually people have an alt shammy since it is such a fun class. This would allow us to use our morale dumps on a target of choice as DoK/Mara with the ICD nerf has significantly less burst than the majority of order melee duos (WL/WH) (WL/SL) and so forth especially when you add in an SM using M2 pounce - it ends up being a lot haha.

But thank you for the tips, I'm going to keep trying it out and hopefully I can come up with something that is more viable in SC's as I totally agree with you a shaman in RVR is extremely hard to kill. But I was told order runs AM still because AM has less defense but is able to put out more HPS than a shaman currently can.

There's absolutely 0 basis when people say AM can put out more HPS
You could say AM runs out of ap less due to Wild Healing, but as Shaman all this means is that It's harder to AP manage and you have to be on top of it more, where as AM doesn't
They could be saying this due to every AM running Desperation, but Shamans have that as well, they just choose to use the multiple (best in the game) tactics they have instead for a good reason.

There's one reason to run a Shaman that I forgot about, AP drain.
AM's AP drain is significantly less effective against Zealot groups due to how Zealot's AP ritual works for MDPS, so your go-to AP drain targets remain unaffected by it, so before you tried your hardest to AP drain their healers but as you could imagine, getting disrupted a lot, and It's going to be a lot worse now. The benefit is Shaman can't cleanse AM's ap drain
Where as Shaman AP draining MDPS and your team keeping it buried will significantly cripple their dps due to Runepriests AP ritual activating on ability use thus proccing a lot less. There's a reason why DoK's don't need to run Restored Motivation

[freshour]

Spoiler:

There's absolutely 0 basis when people say AM can put out more HPS
You could say AM runs out of ap less due to Wild Healing, but as Shaman all this means is that It's harder to AP manage and you have to be on top of it more, where as AM doesn't
They could be saying this due to every AM running Desperation, but Shamans have that as well, they just choose to use the multiple (best in the game) tactics they have instead for a good reason.

There's one reason to run a Shaman that I forgot about, AP drain.
AM's AP drain is significantly less effective against Zealot groups due to how Zealot's AP ritual works for MDPS, so your go-to AP drain targets remain unaffected by it, so before you tried your hardest to AP drain their healers but as you could imagine, getting disrupted a lot, and It's going to be a lot worse now. The benefit is Shaman can't cleanse AM's ap drain
Where as Shaman AP draining MDPS and your team keeping it buried will significantly cripple their dps due to Runepriests AP ritual activating on ability use thus proccing a lot less. There's a reason why DoK's don't need to run Restored Motivation

Thank you for that reply. Yeah I was not entirely sure of the logistics of the statements regarding AM HPS - but I have never claimed to be an expert on their healing. So as for Shaman viability. I realize that you need to keep your HoT's up, especially on the DPS if they are getting focused. I know that group heal and ST heal need to be well timed as to not over heal - but also not be too late with their longer cast time. I guess my question is then - how do you go about maximizing your viability over the entire spectrum of when heals might be warranted?

Longterm being: HoT's - for that steady TLC that HoT's give
Medium: such as heals that have an initial heal followed by HoT that all healers get - still semi straight forward

BUT

Shortterm: Aside from M2 (Focused Mind) - Group/ST Heal and also shrug it off - what is your go to? Gork'll Fix it really seems lackluster in this situation but sometimes it is all you have, sometimes I initially do one of these if target has 2 hots and then go for a big heal. But I think this is where I find myself lacking.

On DoK you just essence lash and throw off two group heals and maybe a KI if everyone else is full as it is a 1:1 WP:Heal ratio and can crit for fairly big numbers. On Zealot - flash flash flash. But on Shammy if I can just figure this out... I will be doing so much better. I've realized that getting a clease off has actually been a useful GCD in that it does give a short bubble for instance doing it right when a BB is about to pop rather than wasting a GCD on casting your own bubble so you can go for a Gork or ST heal. But THIS is the area I'm trying to improve so feel free to enlighten me

[Shing]

Spoiler:

Thank you for that reply. Yeah I was not entirely sure of the logistics of the statements regarding AM HPS - but I have never claimed to be an expert on their healing.

AM also has funnel essence which is nice. I don't know that I would say it gives them better HPS overall though.

Spoiler:

So as for Shaman viability. I realize that you need to keep your HoT's up, especially on the DPS if they are getting focused. I know that group heal and ST heal need to be well timed as to not over heal - but also not be too late with their longer cast time. I guess my question is then - how do you go about maximizing your viability over the entire spectrum of when heals might be warranted?

Longterm being: HoT's - for that steady TLC that HoT's give
Medium: such as heals that have an initial heal followed by HoT that all healers get - still semi straight forward

BUT

Shortterm: Aside from M2 (Focused Mind) - Group/ST Heal and also shrug it off - what is your go to? Gork'll Fix it really seems lackluster in this situation but sometimes it is all you have, sometimes I initially do one of these if target has 2 hots and then go for a big heal. But I think this is where I find myself lacking.

On DoK you just essence lash and throw off two group heals and maybe a KI if everyone else is full as it is a 1:1 WP:Heal ratio and can crit for fairly big numbers. On Zealot - flash flash flash. But on Shammy if I can just figure this out... I will be doing so much better. I've realized that getting a clease off has actually been a useful GCD in that it does give a short bubble for instance doing it right when a BB is about to pop rather than wasting a GCD on casting your own bubble so you can go for a Gork or ST heal. But THIS is the area I'm trying to improve so feel free to enlighten me

Prior to mechanic change being implemented, smart play could give you instant/fast heals. Somewhat can now but it has to be via lifetaps or forcing you to play hybrid. I'll take that and fury can be cast on move and quick w/ high mechanic, but building that way comes with its own set of problems.

[Arconnn]

Funnel Essence heals for ****, you use it as a buffer in emergency's so your RP can get off a bigger heal

I mean, have fun with lifetaps, those 600 lifetaps will keep everyone alive im sure

[Shing]

Hence it's a nice skill to have. And I agree about lifetaps, they're for fun.

I think the class is in an odd spot right now and could use some tlc.

[Fey]

Funnel is another convenient way to proc AP tactics, either one. Even if it heals for ****, have heard zero complaints, it still counters burst and procs AP tactic more reliably than simple big heal. Give me an AM with run between worlds and a competent guard and you can have your worthless shaman tactics.

[Arconnn]

Funnel is another convenient way to proc AP tactics, either one. Even if it heals for ****, have heard zero complaints, it still counters burst and procs AP tactic more reliably than simple big heal. Give me an AM with run between worlds and a competent guard and you can have your worthless shaman tactics.

I mean, when I play my am I have no problems keeping Wild Healing on myself, unless you're running both ap tactics which is unnecessary if you keep ap drain on people
it doesn't "counter" burst, it's not like you use it off cooldown, you use it when you get caught in a bad situation as a last ditch effort due to it instantly healing as soon as you cast, half the time, it's not going to work, It's just something that's there

worthless shaman tactics
you mean, stacking detaunt tactic, which you don't need to cast so when you're knocked down in a burst situation you're going to be fine?
you mean run away, which as morfee can giddly tell you, can kite warbands with it on your own easily
you mean the best morale builder in a game, especially now when morale dumps are more important

ok