Return of Reckoning

Kragg wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:It's hella funny (and predictable) to see all the guilds known for zerging with aoe ranged classes up in arms about these changes. People don't like having their bandaids removed, and the prospect of having to play properly, i.e. more as small groups of individuals, as opposed to reliance on overwhelming numbers, scares them.

If you REALLY care about proper PvP, then you should be welcoming any efforts to nullify the monotony that is zerging and aoe bombing. AoE bombing HASN'T BEEN KILLED, but it now has proper drawbacks.

Tinkerer/Demonology was always built around being a rifter. That still hasn't changed.

Also- so what if your gamestyle has to change? What bearing has that on balance?

You just don't get it, Peter. If you are refering to us as a zerg guild you are mistaking. We field two parties at evenings, nothing more. At the gunline event we act as a regiment in a roleplay manner. In a formation. get a grib already.

Not to mention to show that on EU primetime the biggest zerg is the Destro zerg and has been for weeks on end now, even in the morning hours of EU you have a zerg of a warband and a half up verses 10/15 order players. Some nerve to telling we do not like our bandaids removed when your destro buddies are lobbying all week long to get keg adjusted because you feel it is to OP.

comment pertained to the Invasion dudes who seem to be exaggerating the changes greatly. i don't actually play much atm, nor was I one of the people silly/salty enough to moan about keg. the comment I made re BT was having to change your playstyle (gunline or w/e) has no bearing on balance, and is a non-factor. nothing personal, mate.

Penril wrote:

footpatrol2 wrote:
The tank should be standing infront of you holding the line to provide 15% dodge/disrupt. Actually 3 tanks should be standing infront of you to provide a 45% dodge/disrupt over your friendlies. This AoE change is in conflict with this.

Incorrect. The tank does not need to stand in front of you to give you the HtL buff.

Correct. However, standing behind the MDPS frontline as a tank, whilst peddling backwards and spamming HtL makes so much sense, right? Also makes for playing a tank a very engaging play-style... oh wait, let me face away from all the action and make me feel like I'm not participating for the whole evening.

Awesome! Interesting to see how AoE affects WH/WE. Love the FF reducer idea. Will be fun to test when I get off work...

Thanks for all the work guys and gals!

peterthepan3 wrote: Tinkerer/Demonology was always built around being a rifter. That still hasn't changed.

Also- so what if your gamestyle has to change? What bearing has that on balance?

Thank you for your kind words. I never said i am against changing "my" playstyle, did I? I said i dont have a clue at the moment how tinkerer should be played because nearly all skills around that tree use aoe. I asked for an advice, and never said tinkerer playstyle should hinder any try to resolve balance issues. Im glad you dont think anything has changed, a useful reasoning would have been more helpful.

Marsares wrote:
Correct. However, standing behind the MDPS frontline as a tank, whilst peddling backwards and spamming HtL makes so much sense, right? Also makes for playing a tank a very engaging play-style... oh wait, let me face away from all the action and make me feel like I'm not participating for the whole evening.

Right, because you would be participating SO MUCH MORE if you were just spamming HtL in front of your ally instead of at his side or rear.

Geez... You guys are just looking for excuses, ANY excuse, to rant about this patch without even testing it for a few hours.

guys, lets not flare up into a flame. keep it about the patch notes.

Noergl wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote: Tinkerer/Demonology was always built around being a rifter. That still hasn't changed.

Also- so what if your gamestyle has to change? What bearing has that on balance?

Thank you for your kind words. I never said i am against changing "my" playstyle, did I? I said i dont have a clue at the moment how tinkerer should be played because nearly all skills around that tree use aoe. I asked for an advice, and never said tinkerer playstyle should hinder any try to resolve balance issues. Im glad you dont think anything has changed, a useful reasoning would have been more helpful.

Tinkerer in its current guise should capitalise on the dodge/disrupt buff to the best of its potential. You won't deal a great amount of AOE Burst dps, but you can make yourself tough as hell to fight, provide good utility via rift/concussive mine (you should be using that tactic, along with armor tactic imo) and, generally, prove to be very annoying. Thorbolt plays it perfectly, he's a good guy to ask re tinkerer imo. Sorry, that 'playstyle' comment wasn't aimed at you mate

Edit:
Tried the changes. Not my cup o' ale.

@devs:

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I hit 9 destros with a Gunblast.
I get +45%. As I'm 3 targets above 6 targets.

If I'm a slayer with Wild Swing the cap is raised from 9 to 48. And then he is pulled in the Zerg and hit 24 destros. So he has a plus on 270%. 18 * 15%.

Correct?

peterthepan3 wrote:

Kragg wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:It's hella funny (and predictable) to see all the guilds known for zerging with aoe ranged classes up in arms about these changes. People don't like having their bandaids removed, and the prospect of having to play properly, i.e. more as small groups of individuals, as opposed to reliance on overwhelming numbers, scares them.

If you REALLY care about proper PvP, then you should be welcoming any efforts to nullify the monotony that is zerging and aoe bombing. AoE bombing HASN'T BEEN KILLED, but it now has proper drawbacks.

Tinkerer/Demonology was always built around being a rifter. That still hasn't changed.

Also- so what if your gamestyle has to change? What bearing has that on balance?

You just don't get it, Peter. If you are refering to us as a zerg guild you are mistaking. We field two parties at evenings, nothing more. At the gunline event we act as a regiment in a roleplay manner. In a formation. get a grib already.

Not to mention to show that on EU primetime the biggest zerg is the Destro zerg and has been for weeks on end now, even in the morning hours of EU you have a zerg of a warband and a half up verses 10/15 order players. Some nerve to telling we do not like our bandaids removed when your destro buddies are lobbying all week long to get keg adjusted because you feel it is to OP.

comment pertained to the Invasion dudes who seem to be exaggerating the changes greatly. i don't actually play much atm, nor was I one of the people silly/salty enough to moan about keg. the comment I made re BT was having to change your playstyle (gunline or w/e) has no bearing on balance, and is a non-factor. nothing personal, mate.

Fine by me. Your post rubbed me the wrong way, that's all. Especially ' see all the guilds known for zerging with aoe ranged classes up in arms about these changes.'

Bit frustrating to classify a guild that have held 42 public events, and several side events, for the community of this server that easy. We are always out in the rvr lake and we always put up a fight to whomever we meet. You can understand the fact that on first glancewe are not thrilled to see the potential demise of our gunline events.

But like I stated above we will adjust as wel always have.



We understand we do not matter in in the bigger balance scheme of things but we as a guild could be greatly effected by this.

EDIT: Sorry Nur! I didn't see that. Will refrain on posting again on the matter and go back on topic!