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Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:03 pm
by braendir
all that azarael is good for dps wp but what about melee healer and full healer who tested them?
and how in team or in pugs sc
and how you explain wp/dok have same armor than AM RP without their skills for protect them?

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:04 pm
by Morf
adei wrote: Interesting viewpoint, you are a core tester Morfe and have watched these changes go by in multiple stages, you had every oppertunity to test them yourself or recommend someone. The healer aspect has been taken into two separate areas, Melee healing which I tested extensively is more than capable of supporting groups, Backline healing still maintains its healing to s point, you will now have to adapt with the stances and swap into Melee healing when needed. No more full Backline spam.

I can elaborate more when I can reach my computer, phones suck.
I have made my point to take a back seat in regards to core tester(so i didnt see any of this coming) as i dont agree with alot of the stuff that is being changed, when i did disagree its deemed as a whine/disagreeing out of principle or the like, i dont think this is the place to discuss this anyway m8.

One point made was heal wp v sh, seeing as they will have such low armor values and cannot cleanse sh stuff it may be very bad, tbh it is to be tested so we will see, i hope it works out.

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:05 pm
by sotora
Azarael wrote:Yeah that's on the todo list.
Thanks.

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:07 pm
by Azarael
braendir wrote:all that azarael is good for dps wp but what about melee healer and full healer who tested them?
and how in team or in pugs sc
What are you talking about? I don't play DPS WP. My interest in this .ex mode was in linking both the melee heals and the casted heals into one cohesive spec. Any improvements to MDPS WP, while they turned out well, were not the primary aim of this .ex.

The changes were tested primarily in small scale in both PUG and premade environments. I recall peterthepan in particular getting back to me saying that he was surprised by the viability of a Grace WP in a 6 man.

I suggest waiting for Ade or Pan to post if you want a more detailed explanation, as to be frank, as the author of the changes, I don't think anyone will trust my defense.

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:11 pm
by braendir
Azarael wrote:
braendir wrote:all that azarael is good for dps wp but what about melee healer and full healer who tested them?
and how in team or in pugs sc
What are you talking about? I don't play DPS WP. My interest in this .ex mode was in linking both the melee heals and the casted heals into one cohesive spec. Any improvements to MDPS WP, while they turned out well, were not the primary aim of this .ex.

The changes were tested primarily in small scale in both PUG and premade environments. I recall peterthepan in particular getting back to me saying that he was surprised by the viability of a Grace WP in a 6 man.

I suggest waiting for Ade or Pan to post if you want a more detailed explanation, as to be frank, as the author of the changes, I don't think anyone will trust my defense.

in premade i have not problem for trust you but this is the problem the PREMADE what about the wp alone in a PUGS sc? in all my posts if you read again you we see i never speak about premade but in pugs sc are the real problem

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:13 pm
by Azarael
It's even better in a PUG SC. What happened in my experience was simple:

- PUGs spot a WP with a two hander - "Must be DPS WP lol, kill him!"
- They zerg me
- Detaunt up, S'R and DA spam for 1000/1200 HPS, throw Divine Mend for 1.1k as well
- PUGs beat on me for a bit longer
- PUGs realize that something's not quite right
- PUGs slink off to beat on a Slayer or something

The other variant:

- Smart PUG decides to intervene
- Punts me
- I have 150% of Strength as Willpower for 12 seconds after my last Grace hit, so I just use my casted heals while I get back into the fight
- GG

By no means is it immortal, though - damage reduction effects crush the melee healing, you can be CCed and dumped on as normal if you screw it up and if you're caught out of position for too long and can't get stacks up, you are forced to drop 50% of your armor if you want to continue healing.

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:16 pm
by braendir
well i'm doubtful about that but as you said i didn't tested
in a other hand i hope wp will be not too powerful because what you say in your last message make me a bit worried

- Detaunt up, S'R and DA spam for 1000/1200 HPS, throw Divine Mend for 1.1k as well
- PUGs beat on me for a bit longer
- PUGs realize that something's not quite right

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:18 pm
by Cimba
Hehe... when this leaves experimental the non english speakers are certainly in for a surprise :) With tooltips and everything unchanged they won't have a **** clue whats going on.

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:18 pm
by Azarael
braendir wrote:well i'm doubtful about that but as you said i didn't tested
in a other hand i hope wp will be not too powerful because what you say in your last message make me a bit worried

- Detaunt up, S'R and DA spam for 1000/1200 HPS, throw Divine Mend for 1.1k as well
- PUGs beat on me for a bit longer
- PUGs realize that something's not quite right
Bear in mind that PUGs are inefficient. I amended my post to indicate what usually happens when you die, but it is necessary that any healer which is required to go into melee require something more than just being attacked by a few people to die. In a premade situation, you're going to be attacked more efficiently, but in that situation you require support just like anyone else. The difference is that you can't be shut down by someone breathing in your direction any more, and that super punts in particular will just be met by a backline shift rather than "oh bugger my team is dead, lol"

Re: Changelog 15/11/16 (Pending)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:26 pm
by hellagen182
As braendir wrote in a previous post wp/dok got no cc apart from that aoe kb which it's weak if you compare it to rune/am or zeal/sham one..
so from my pov forcing wp/dok (with debuffed armor) to stay in frontline in order to heal it's something that I can't understand..
the lack of cleansablity from wp/dok in reference to sh/ib heal debuff makes it even worse for them to stay in the middle of the fight.
Also for wp it won't be such a big problem when it will face rdps in rvr/sc etc because its detaunt works different than the dok one (which will detaunt just one target and not the target + enemies within 30ft from it)