Return of Reckoning

Nishka wrote:People always blame someone else for their fails. Don't stand in place waiting till a kotbs, who for some reason has this highly situational tactic instead of +10% crit, comes 5ft close to you. Learn to kite. Learn to choose position. Ask your tank to switch guard. Nobody said winning is easy.

So everyone is supposed to run away from the kotbs? Or are you forgetting that it's not just the shaman, but everyone the shaman heals that is affected by this tactic? Just curious on your opinion here

Nishka wrote:People always blame someone else for their fails. Don't stand in place waiting till a kotbs, who for some reason has this highly situational tactic instead of +10% crit, comes 5ft close to you. Learn to kite. Learn to choose position. Ask your tank to switch guard. Nobody said winning is easy.

I'd address the LUDICROUS COUNTERS you are proposing, most of which are impossible or at best take MUCH MORE EFFORT than slotting Destroy Conf when required, but there's nothing that you can say that defends this tactic, because the easiest solution to its use is already there.

Don't bring a Shaman!

It doesn't even matter that the tactic isn't commonly used if its very existence acts as a check against the class in question. It only matters that the tactic CAN be used if so desired.

Azarael wrote:

Nishka wrote:People always blame someone else for their fails. Don't stand in place waiting till a kotbs, who for some reason has this highly situational tactic instead of +10% crit, comes 5ft close to you. Learn to kite. Learn to choose position. Ask your tank to switch guard. Nobody said winning is easy.

I'd address the LUDICROUS COUNTERS you are proposing, most of which are impossible or at best take MUCH MORE EFFORT than slotting Destroy Conf when required, but there's nothing that you can say that defends this tactic, because the easiest solution to its use is already there.

Don't bring a Shaman!

It doesn't even matter that the tactic isn't commonly used if its very existence acts as a check against the class in question. It only matters that the tactic CAN be used if so desired.

But they are so cute

bloodi wrote:

Gobtar wrote: Tell me how this is not a problem? What if Black Orcs could do the same thing?

You may think i am joking but probably the only reason why destruction doesnt have a mirror is because no order healer can put 3 healing "enchatments" on a target. Am can put 2 and one of them is healing energy which he shouldnt be using anyway.

TKlees wrote: My solution to destroy confidence was to change the shaman toughness or regular hot to a blessing so that it wouldn't be a complete counter. I have yet to have anyone respond to that suggestion. The tactic itself isn't OP its the fact it removes shamans that is. So why not just tweak Shamans

@Bloodi: That does sound like Mythic logic
@Tklees: I would probably make the Toughness Hot a blessing (if we went this route), I always found it strange that Shaman's were Enchantments and not zealots. My suggested fix would have the tactic remove the CD from Shatter Confidence. It would still be increadibly powerful at that point, but not to the point it is at now.

There other thing that baffled me is that 2 of the healers use blessings and 1 uses enchantment while 2 of both tanks sever enchantments and 1 does blessings. WE/WH do get Sever blessing as well, but I found that strange.

Kiting a KotBS can be difficult already thanks to Slice Through, and will be impossible once they get No Escape (im sure we will be talking about that morale at some point too )

Azarael wrote:
Don't bring a Shaman!

This is basically it. Between BW (can't cleanse BB) and Knights, Shaman's have no real place in a competitive group.

Nishka wrote:People always blame someone else for their fails.
Deflecting
Don't stand in place waiting till a kotbs, who for some reason has this highly situational tactic instead of +10% crit,comes 5ft close to you.
'Situational'
Learn to kite.
Lol
Learn to choose position. Ask your tank to switch guard. Nobody said winning is easy.
Hey bro I'm getting assisted and I just realized they have a kotbs so our healing shaman is near useless guard me before I die oh wait im dead

I'm glad somebody finally pointed out the marauder/archmage thing, and how even if it was mirrorerd archmage wouldn't be affected to the extend shaman is.

Nameless wrote:the solution is easy, just dont bring shaman. Satisfied?

Fully. Too many shamans in the game, let only the fittest survive. Maybe then I will be able to play my sham without being 5th shaman in the group

I'm sorry but I should quit this pointless conversation. When the tactic becomes avaible, make a kotbs, equip this tactic and try to prove it's oppn'es by destroying everything and everyone. If you manage to show everyone how unbalanced S-C is, I'll be the first to say "I am sorry, I was wrong you clearly know the class better than me".
For now, it's pure theorycrafting backed up by every proper destro's faith in order bias.

EDIT:
I'd address the LUDICROUS COUNTERS you are proposing, most of which are impossible or at best take MUCH MORE EFFORT than slotting Destroy Conf when required, but there's nothing that you can say that defends this tactic, because the easiest solution to its use

Actually, it's the same counters that were proposed to me when I asked why the **** Flames of Fate is allowed to exist as it is. Except that I don't propose to trade 2nd morale for 1st.

Nishka wrote:People always blame someone else for their fails. Don't stand in place waiting till a kotbs, who for some reason has this highly situational tactic instead of +10% crit, comes 5ft close to you. Learn to kite. Learn to choose position. Ask your tank to switch guard. Nobody said winning is easy.

Its called running 2 kotbs, both dont need to run 20% grp crit 15% heal etc


And once againg you complealty seem to miss that shatter enchantment dosnt only just work on shaman, but their defensive target as well and so you compleatly remove the heals the shaman casts and punish the shaman for trying to heal the target in the first place

Gobtar wrote:

Azarael wrote:
Don't bring a Shaman!

This is basically it. Between BW (can't cleanse BB) and Knights, Shaman's have no real place in a competitive group.

+1