Overarching balance changes

[Jaycub]

I think most of the problems for RDPS in 6v6 have been identified, but how would you change the game so that RDPS would be just as viable in a DPS slot as a melee class?

I think they are viable, CCM proved it just require a good TEAM play, they can do a LOT of dmg


Click here to watch on YouTube

The video opens with the destro team split, WE on the WL and Choppa on the BW... then they get on the same target and its the freakin WL instead of the BW. Tank doesn't get punted until like 0:55 and it wasn't even so they could burn a target.

Didn't even watch past that.

[peterthepan3]

1) i think they got some kind requirement to join the guild, you dont see anyone using that tag
2) back in the day that was the lvl cap

1) Irrelevant: that wasn't their best team setup.
2) Yes it was, and now the level cap is 40/RR is 80. We're talking about balancing around current gameplay, which vastly favours melee over ranged in smallscale encounters.

[Penril]

...

Am/Shaman can just cast silence or a heal debuff, which they should do a lot of times and the next heal will get improved, you could argue about not having enough gcds on pressure situations but outside of them, the mechanic does grant them an upside in reduced cast times and more powerful instants, we could also argue how pitiful that increase is but is still there.

As dps however, is a great mechanic, using damage skills grants you free aoe heals, i cant see how anyone can argue that there is no upside here.

Wl/SH is indeed **** to lost major part of your damage to mostly stupid ai and dumb aoe.

BO/SM do get an upside from its mechanic, the further they are on the plan, they get better skills which gets compensated by not being as flexible. So its a fair trade imo.

Choppa/Slayer: They get to control it by rage dumps, you can argue that using a gcd to dump rage is a downside but most of them are either part of their rotation or too good to not use. And every dps needs guard to not melt.

Engi/magus: They suck so do their mechanic.

The point is that you cant keep pointing to the crit number without seeing the number when its not a crit, if you can average 350 damage and i can get to 400 in 70% of my attacks, i still will lose to average damage to you, just like happens now. You constantly pointing out that i have more crit damage is stupid when its the crit damage the only thing that ever keeps me close to you.

We have spoken about that stick several times, remember?

You asked for the downside on other classes and i listed them all. Sure, they also have their upsides.

BW/Sorc is not about doing good average damage but instead it is all about burst in 1-2 secs. Chillwind, Word of Pain, Doombolt/Gloomburst/Inevitable Doom/Hand of Ruin. Crit on 70% of those and no other class in the game will be close to the damage you can do.

Engies/Magus probably have the best average damage in the game yet they can't kill **** (how many SCs have you seen where they do 200k+ damage and have 2-3 deathblows?). Yet you could see a BW/Sorc with 70k damage and 15 deathblows.

Anyway, I don't think Sorc/BW should be nerfed (i said that in my post). I just think that their mechanic DRAWBACK is definitely ridiculous, specially compared to the drawbacks of the other classes I mentioned. On live there were several discussions about how to change the drawback (wounds/heal debuffs, for example) and in the end the Devs decided to go with an increase in backlash damage depending on your RR (to be implemented in 1.4.9). Sadly it never went live.

[dontcomplainx]

I think most of the problems for RDPS in 6v6 have been identified, but how would you change the game so that RDPS would be just as viable in a DPS slot as a melee class?

I think they are viable, CCM proved it just require a good TEAM play, they can do a LOT of dmg


Click here to watch on YouTube

The video opens with the destro team split, WE on the WL and Choppa on the BW... then they get on the same target and its the freakin WL instead of the BW. Tank doesn't get punted until like 0:55 and it wasn't even so they could burn a target.

Didn't even watch past that.

WE? sorry but you didnt open the vid at all, they got choppas , its like i said " require a good TEAM play", ive found another, they defeat another MDPS group.


Click here to watch on YouTube

[peterthepan3]

I don't get where you're going by posting level 35 videos when we're talking about level 40...? Unless you're trying to bait (the second tank is (was) 11 years-old, we were trying a completely new setup and missed 3/4 of our main players).

As said already: level 40 gives way to pulls, adding another factor into the mix.

[bloodi]

BW/Sorc is not about doing good average damage but instead it is all about burst in 1-2 secs. Chillwind, Word of Pain, Doombolt/Gloomburst/Inevitable Doom. Engies/Magus probably have the best average damage in the game yet they can't kill **** (how many SCs have you seen where they do 200k+ damage and have 2-3 deathblows?). Yet you could see a BW/Sorc with 70k damage and 15 deathblows.

How do people die to anything that is not Sorc/Bw then if they are the kings of burst?

Ah yeah, because the average damage a lot of classes do in 5 secs, is the same a BW can do on a burst, as long as the target is not guarded.

This is the key of the problem, you cant keep talking about their insane crit damage without realizing is that crit damage what puts them on an equal foot.

A marauder can make you explode in 5 secs, easily but they dont have a mechanic that reads "+50% crit damage" so people doesnt even think about it.

Just clock the damage any melee does in the window a BW/sorc has to do their damage, casters will even lose in that comparison yet people cant stop talking about the damage a BW can do because they read the mechanic and think they figured the problem out.

Anyway, I don't think Sorc/BW should be nerfed (i said that in my post). I just think that their mechanic DRAWBACK is definitely ridiculous, specially compared to the drawbacks of the other classes I mentioned. On live there were several discussions about how to change the drawback (wounds/heal debuffs, for example) and in the end the Devs decided to go with an increase in backlash damage depending on your RR (to be implemented in 1.4.9). Sadly it never went live.

I think you are severly understimating what losing 1/4 of your hp on 2 gcds for casting means when you are under pressure.

Like it or not, casters get attacked too, you can talk about their mechanic in a vacuum where they are not targeted at all and healed constantly.

And i would welcome a mechanic change, specially one that makes it less random, i would rather lose hp in every cast that just sometimes.

[Jaycub]

WE? sorry but you didnt open the vid at all, they got choppas , its like i said " require a good TEAM play", ive found another, they defeat another MDPS group.


Click here to watch on YouTube

****'s that's embarrassing, gotta let this zippy water wear off I guess. Had to watch the vid like 10 times to even figure out their comp, that guys UI is crazy.

Also wish the vids where from the start of the fight and not halfway through them, opening and 1st morales are the best way to see how a team is playing.

[sanii]

I don't get where you're going by posting level 35 videos when we're talking about level 40...? Unless you're trying to bait (the second tank is (was) 11 years-old, we were trying a completely new setup and missed 3/4 of our main players).

THAT doesn't matter mate you got defeated on lvl 35 by a 1 3 2 , so that is definite 100% proof how its working as intended and totally viable at 40.

[Jaycub]

^who was saying 3-2-1 wasn't viable in t3? Even DPS AM was pretty damn good in T3 in that setup. Or am I responding to sarcasm I can't tell right now

[Penril]

How do people die to anything that is not Sorc/Bw then if they are the kings of burst?

Ah yeah, because the average damage a lot of classes do in 5 secs, is the same a BW can do on a burst, as long as the target is not guarded.

This is the key of the problem, you cant keep talking about their insane crit damage without realizing is that crit damage what puts them on an equal foot.

A marauder can make you explode in 5 secs, easily but they dont have a mechanic that reads "+50% crit damage" so people doesnt even think about it.

Just clock the damage any melee does in the window a BW/sorc has to do their damage, casters will even lose in that comparison yet people cant stop talking about the damage a BW can do because they read the mechanic and think they figured the problem out.

Again: I don't think their crit damage should be nerfed. Just that the drawback of being at 100% should be bigger. Can you not see the difference?