Ungrin wrote:Tesq wrote:no NB is not really need; when you change stance you also swap skills, you need nb to bind skills and save space to be faster but with 4-5 skill in every stance to use it's like warhamemr online have his own incorporate NB alredy inside mara.
Just saying you can literally still NB the entire rotation of the marauder and keep anyone you want to 100% debuffed. Wounds, Armor, Toughness, Heal debuffed 100% uptime and on top of burst them when they get low.
The marauder is the swiss army knife of Destro. The problem lies in the fact that It's the ONLY viable DPS for competitive groups, so of course destruction doesn't want it nerfed. They're scared they will be nerfed into the ground. The other mDPS and DPS needs to be buffed to compensate and be in line with order's. That's how you get people to relax and accept balance.
The Marauder is the swiss arm knife of Destro.
My reasoning on not wanting the class nerfed has nothing to do with what Destro wants, but how the class is designed, and balanced vs the other MDPS classes. Yes, if it is the only MDPS class being run by Destro, that's a problem, and we should find a solution, but the proposed issues are wrong, and the proposed changes are therefore wrong.
As I state in this thread many times as well, there are two ways to go about this. Either bring up the Choppa/WL to the Slayer/Mara level, or of course, nerf the Slayer/Mara, I for one, am much more inclined to buff up weak classes to make them viable. That being said, there are a variety of changes you could make to Marauder to tweak them downwards without making them a poor class. While I think this is wrong approach in general, we need to properly discern what makes a Marauder "OP", in comparison to the other MDPS classes.
As you state, it is the "swiss army knife" of MDPS classes. It has the potential to have solid debuffs, solid damage, and solid survivbility, but it doesn't have the best damage, it doesn't have all the debuffs, and its survivability is only slightly higher than most other MDPS classes (and much below tanks). Suggestions like Tesqs are precisely the wrong approach to trying to balance the class, as they would essentially make it impossible for the Marauder to be effective.
There are ways to reduce the Marauders overall level of power, but thats not why you and others think they are overpowered. The real reason you guys think they are overpowered (as stated) is the classes versitility. You don't want a class that is able to have good debuffs, good damage, and good survivability, even if it isn't all at the same time (because for a Marauder, it isn't obviously), but the class has the option to "switch over" to one of those as necessary, making it a swiss army knife esque comparison.
There are a variety of ways to achieve this:
1. Crystallize the stances more. What do I mean by this? What I mean is, make the stances more restrictive on what a Marauder can do. For instance, my growing instability change suggestion above. Right now, it gives the Marauder 50% crit damage, in any stance. However, Brutality stance is the Marauders damage stance. Why shouldn't Growing Instability be particularly effective in Brutality, but less so in the other stances? So a suggestion change alone this mindset is to change growing instability to only a 25% crit damage increase when in Savagery or Monstrosity Stances. This means that to deal high damage, the Marauder must be in Brutality stance. They will get reduced damage when in Savagery to debuff or Monstro to stay alive.
2. Tone down one of the classes aspects. Such as just nerfing damage, nerfing debuffs, or nerfing survivability. This is "doable", but I believe to be the wrong approach to a bad balance decision in the first place. That being said, if I had to pick anything to go here, it is the survivability. The Marauders survivability benefits are already overrated, and if people think it is over the top, just do something like remove the heal leech from Deadly Clutch. There, you now solved the "uber" survivability of the Marauder and brought it in line. This is a change most Marauders wouldn't even care about, as it is so overrated in terms of what it can do and how much healing it provides.
The one thing that shouldn't be adjusted downwards too far is the Marauders damage. A MDPS class that can't deal DPS is not a good thing, as there is a reason that the Marauders damage was buffed time and again from launch of WAR, because at launch, their damage was worse than DPS tanks, and they served no purpose to bring anywhere outside of pulls and an armor debuff (they did not have the wounds debuff at this point in time). I remember these days, and no Marauder player wants to go back to the days of being a pull bot.
However, if a Marauder can't debuff, and can't deal damage, it is not going to be a "must have class" anymore for Destro, you are absolutely correct. It isn't going to be a "used" class for Destro anymore either, because that is what you call an over-nerf. This is specifically the classes role, and if it cannot achieve this, it won't be good. If you take out the Marauders debuffs/nerf them significantly, then you get a WL with bad mobility, or a Choppa/Zerker with bad damage. If you take out the Marauders damage, you get a horrible class that serves no purpose besides being a weird debuffing bad off-tank.
Essentially, every MDPS class has its pros and cons, the Marauder included. I'd much rather be talking about buffing the WL and the Choppa, who definitely need it, then locked into this discussion because that is the proper way to balance this game. However, there are ways to tone down the Marauders power level if you want to go in that direction, ways that would make it weaker, but not bad. Tesqs idea for instance, would make the Marauder have to choose between being able to deal DPS, and heal debuffing, which would make it just bad.
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