Id just like to point out that a major factor in maras dmg on live was a bugged piercing bite that allowed 50% armor ignore on every ability not just mutation requiring ones so here in RoR when the tacti will not be buggedUngrin wrote: You clearly never played on live. Ever.
A Marauder "may" in some cases take someone from 0-100 (in 1v1 setting) faster than a Choppa or Slayer. This is because A, they don't have to build up their rage, and B, the wounds debuff = a lot of potential burst damage when used as a first action. This does not mean "they do more damage", and no it isn't about fluff damage. A fully geared, zerking Slayer or Choppa does much more sustained and burst damage than a Mara. The math simply doesn't lie. However, a Marauder can do his full burst immediately, without having to be in combat prior to build up his mechanic. These are what you would call "pros and cons".Ungrin wrote:A marauder will kill you faster than a Choppa or slayer ever would. That's like saying because the slayer is putting out more fluff damage that he is doing more damage. This simply isn't true. It's the reason why Marauders were one of the most played DPS on live.Coryphaus wrote:Ok lests just clear this out of the way first; mara has and never will deal more pure dps than slayer and choppa to state otherwise is false
now tesq, im not sure if your aware or not but this is how maras spaec:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... :5194:5204:
no points are ever put into monstro unless you plan on using the class for pve or have never played the class at all so dont try to act like they will spec insanse wispers its like saying that choppas spec get to the choppa
You can't tell me that it's simply "not true." I've played 100 a marauder and a 100 Slayer and a 100 choppa. Those 2 are nowhere near a Marauder. A marauder's wounds debuff will make short work of you and in t2 it's near OP. Put me on a fully geared marauder and you will take every word you said back.
This is true. Also, Feeding on Fear was bugged too.Coryphaus wrote:Id just like to point out that a major factor in maras dmg on live was a bugged piercing bite that allowed 50% armor ignore on every ability not just mutation requiring ones so here in RoR when the tacti will not be buggedUngrin wrote: You clearly never played on live. Ever.
their dmg will be no where near as high and their for maras dps will never be equal to or greater than chop/slayer
sy your bias over mara "not need nerf wont work on me"foof wrote:
Simply put, I'm done with trying to have a logical discussion with you because it is apparently clear you don't know what you are talking about.
Having a high post count does not mean you know what you are talking about, nor does it mean that the content of your posts is good.
You act like any Marauder is going to spec Insane Whispers? LOL? And you act like Touch of Instability is some kind of good "anti-healer tool" (it doesn't scale, its absolutely terrible damage). It is extremely clear you don't really know much about the Marauder class, how it works, what i can do, and what fixes it may need. Your suggestions to fix the class are essentially to nerf it down to where it can't play as a viable MDPS anymore. Hurr durr you have to choose between damage and utility, but other MDPS won't have to! You think that the Marauder does better damage than the Slayer and Choppa, thats absolutely, 100% wrong and shows a funadmental misunderstanding of how this game works, etc...
never said mara spec those things, read carefully and better what i wrote, i said mara/wl have anti healing tool and not for chace.
And when you compare classes, try not to be so biased in the future. You list all of the Marauders "anti-heal" tools (two of which are pure garabge), and not all the WLs. As I stated before, the Marauder does not have a good amount of anti-healing tools. In fact, it doesn't even have that good tools in compared to other MDPS classes.
cos a 50% leech+ debuff on a class that alredy ingore 50% armor and crit 50% more is not enough togheter with silence etc ...
1. Tainted Claw/Deadly Clutch - To get a 50% heal debuff like the Choppa, Slayer, WH, and WE, the Marauder NEEDS TO SPEND A TACTIC SLOT THAT THEY DON'T. THATS A BAD THING. This means that Choppas/Slayers/WH/and WE already are more anti-healer than a Marauder, as they can run full dps tactics AND have a 50% healing debuff.
wtf stop with the it need to be slot matter, it dosen't **** matter since all the other mara tool are skills and not tactics those 4-5 tactic are there to be slot god, not like you gona put anything better there; stop complaining you are ridiculus.
2. Touch of Instability IS NOT WORTH A GCD OUTSIDE OF T2. ITS A HORRIBLE ABILITY THAT HAS NO SCALING.
i never said is worth or is used in any rotation , i said it show as mara have more tool oriented as anti healer rather than do damage like choppa/slayer.
3. Insane Whispers is a garabge tactic that isn't any good, is 7 points up the Marauders worst path, and nobody would ever slot because its horrible.
It's the worst path cos every op skill is in the others paths and this is why we are here and there is a thread about nerf mara, yes nerf cos it need a nerf/tone down/fix what you wanna call it.
4. Mouth of Tzeentch is ok. It's an AoE interrupt. You can't use it while you are in DPS stance.
That realistically means that the Marauders "anti-healer tools" are TWO ABILITIES, ONE OF WHICH NEEDS A TACTIC EQUIPPED AND SPECED FOR TO BE EQUAL TO WHAT OTHER MDPS CAN DO.
exatly ....you just can't have all for FREE you know look to build somethign really....
Marauders are not "anti-healer DPS", you do not know what you are talking about.
mara/wl show as i said some options to be more anti/kiters or anti healer rather than hard hitter like choppa/slayer, they should not do the same damage.
Lets compare other MDPS as anti-healers shall we?
Slayer;
1. Has a 50% incoming heal debuff that doesn't require a tactic slot used.
2. Has a core knockdown.
3. Has Inevitable Doom.
worst argument ever since kd consume all his rage and his aoe need a nerf, also you don't **** need a knock down since you know 2 tanks x party or x wb can do that and do it better ...
= Slayer is already a better anti-healer than Marauder.
slayer is a **** better class in anything due doing more damage aoe than any other mdps...
Choppa;
1. Has a 50% incoming heal debuff that doesn't require a tactic slot.
2. Has a core knockdown.
3. Has a 50% outgoing heal debuff.
(Has some other tools like Tired Already? that are of questionable use).
= Choppa is already a better anti-healer than Marauder.
Do I need to go into the rest of the MDPS classes or can we leave it at that? If the WL had an incoming healing debuff instead of an outgoing, they'd be 10 times better anti-healer than Marauders, but they don't (yet).
no you dont get nothing as both slayer /choppa heal debuff can be cleanse and while their heal debuff have 10 sec CD your have 5 sec CD enjoy, you can like fast swap and bring down every st ppl around and also LEECH HEALS FROM 2 PPL.
But why tone down something that's not imbalanced?foof wrote:If you want to tone down Marauders options without ruining the class, there are a variety of options that could be done that wouldn't ruin it. Now I don't think this is necessary, as my arguments throughout this thread show, but there are certain ways you could reduce the Marauders options while not making them weak in the process.
For example:
Change Growing Instability into a 25% crit damage tactic, but 50% crit damage when in Brutality stance. This still allows a Marauder who is in Brutality (the single target DPS stance) to do good damage, but reduces the Marauders damage when they swap into Savagery (to debuff) or Monstrosity (to stay alive).
A change like this is fair, still allows the Marauder to play as a MDPS, but reduces their effectiveness overall. If you want to nerf the Marauder, it needs to be done in a way that still allows them to play as a decent MDPS class. Over-nerfing the class with kneejerk reactions when you don't even understand how they work (like every person who thinks they outdamage Slayers and Choppas), it just nonsense.
And you are still wrong, whether they spec for them or not. If you compare what the Marauder has that is "anti-healer" compared to every other MDPS, you will see that the Marauder has at best equal anti-healer tools and in many cases, WORSE. How can they be the anti-healer MDPS when they have worse and less tools?Tesq wrote:
never said mara spec those things, read carefully and better what i wrote, i said mara/wl have anti healing tool and not for chace.
So now we go from talking about anti-healer tools to damage... which has nothing to do with what you were saying. And since when to Marauders have silence? They don't. Blah blah you don't know what you are talking about and your argument is horrible.cos a 50% leech+ debuff on a class that alredy ingore 50% armor and crit 50% more is not enough togheter with silence etc ...
Once again, your argument is horrible. IT DOES MATTER THAT IT COSTS A TACTIC SLOT. Why wouldn't it matter? Do other MDPS have to slot a tactic to get a 50% heal debuff? No. There are more then 4-5 tactic slots, god, you could put something better in there if you weren't FORCED to take it to get the same healing debuff potential as other MDPS.
wtf stop with the it need to be slot matter, it dosen't **** matter since all the other mara tool are skills and not tactics those 4-5 tactic are there to be slot god, not like you gona put anything better there; stop complaining you are ridiculus.
It does not show that whatsoever. It shows that the Marauder has a bad ability. They do not have more anti-healer oriented tools than other MDPS classes, in fact, they often have less. Next?i never said is worth or is used in any rotation , i said it show as mara have more tool oriented as anti healer rather than do damage like choppa/slayer.
Having skills that make a class playable and decent doesn't make it OP. Your basic assumptions are wrong, and your inherent lack of knowledge about the Marauder class is glaring. You do not know what you are talking about, and you prove it every new post you make.It's the worst path cos every op skill is in the others paths and this is why we are here and there is a thread about nerf mara, yes nerf cos it need a nerf/tone down/fix what you wanna call it.
Please try to learn english. This is incoherent nonsense.exatly ....you just can't have all for FREE you know look to build somethign really....
You can slot a tactic to not have it consume your rage! Just like you can slot insane whispers. If my arguments are the "worst ever", but yours in your mind are good, you are absolutely delusional.worst argument ever since kd consume all his rage and his aoe need a nerf, also you don't **** need a knock down since you know 2 tanks x party or x wb can do that and do it better ...
Yes, and they don't have to spend a tactic slot to get their healing debuff. And THE LEECH HEALS IS NOT VERY GOOD, ITS 25% OF THE TOTAL HPS TO THE TARGET, SCROLL UP TO EARLIER PAGES IN THE THREAD WHERE I TALK ABOUT THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN.no you dont get nothing as both slayer /choppa heal debuff can be cleanse and while their heal debuff have 10 sec CD your have 5 sec CD enjoy, you can like fast swap and bring down every st ppl around and also LEECH HEALS FROM 2 PPL.
Because you aren't able to comprehend very much of anything.sy your bias over mara "not need nerf wont work on me"
To placate people who don't know what they are talking about? I don't know man. It really doesn't need a nerf whatsoever, most of the people calling for Marauder nerfs really have 0 idea what they are talking about. "They do more damage than Slayers and Choppas, derrr", "They have tank survivability derr", it is just honestly pathetic. There isn't one coherent argument on this thread yet that makes any sense for a significant Marauder nerf.Euan wrote:But why tone down something that's not imbalanced?foof wrote:If you want to tone down Marauders options without ruining the class, there are a variety of options that could be done that wouldn't ruin it. Now I don't think this is necessary, as my arguments throughout this thread show, but there are certain ways you could reduce the Marauders options while not making them weak in the process.
For example:
Change Growing Instability into a 25% crit damage tactic, but 50% crit damage when in Brutality stance. This still allows a Marauder who is in Brutality (the single target DPS stance) to do good damage, but reduces the Marauders damage when they swap into Savagery (to debuff) or Monstrosity (to stay alive).
A change like this is fair, still allows the Marauder to play as a MDPS, but reduces their effectiveness overall. If you want to nerf the Marauder, it needs to be done in a way that still allows them to play as a decent MDPS class. Over-nerfing the class with kneejerk reactions when you don't even understand how they work (like every person who thinks they outdamage Slayers and Choppas), it just nonsense.
I don't think crying should dictate nerfs. I'm sure the devs are smart enough to see how dumb these guys sound.foof wrote:To placate people who don't know what they are talking about? I don't know man. It really doesn't need a nerf whatsoever, most of the people calling for Marauder nerfs really have 0 idea what they are talking about. "They do more damage than Slayers and Choppas, derrr", "They have tank survivability derr", it is just honestly pathetic. There isn't one coherent argument on this thread yet that makes any sense for a significant Marauder nerf.Euan wrote:But why tone down something that's not imbalanced?foof wrote:If you want to tone down Marauders options without ruining the class, there are a variety of options that could be done that wouldn't ruin it. Now I don't think this is necessary, as my arguments throughout this thread show, but there are certain ways you could reduce the Marauders options while not making them weak in the process.
For example:
Change Growing Instability into a 25% crit damage tactic, but 50% crit damage when in Brutality stance. This still allows a Marauder who is in Brutality (the single target DPS stance) to do good damage, but reduces the Marauders damage when they swap into Savagery (to debuff) or Monstrosity (to stay alive).
A change like this is fair, still allows the Marauder to play as a MDPS, but reduces their effectiveness overall. If you want to nerf the Marauder, it needs to be done in a way that still allows them to play as a decent MDPS class. Over-nerfing the class with kneejerk reactions when you don't even understand how they work (like every person who thinks they outdamage Slayers and Choppas), it just nonsense.
But my point is, you could make a change like that and still have a good class. A lot of the changes other people are suggesting (like Tesq) are stupid knee jerk nerfs based on false premises and illogical arguments.
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