Tesq wrote:foof wrote:
An issue is who said the Mara/WL are the "anti-kiter MDPS" they never were that by design, the WL just excels at it because of Pounce. They are the "brawler" MDPS classes, supposed to have medium armor, good damage (but not as much as the other MDPS clases), and good utility. Unlike the "Assassin" grouping that has light armor, high burst damage, and stealth, and the "Bezerker" grouping that has med armor but sacrifices that for very high damage. Outside of TE that Marauder is hardly an "anti-kiting DPS".
They really don't show that many anti-healer tools. The WL easiest has the worst heal debuff out of any MDPS class, the Marauder has to waste a tactic slot to get a 50% heal debuff. They actually have the worst heal debuffs out of all the MDPS classes. How am I supposed to take you seriously when you make statements like that?
Your rotations don't make any sense whatsoever and show a complete lack of misunderstanding of how the class works.
Anyway, as I said earlier, taking the heal drain out of the DC tactic would be a change that could nerf the Marauder without making them bad, but the overall point here is why shouldn't a Marauder have tools to kill people? They aren't tanks here, and people really over-estimate their utility without their damage. Wow, a wounds debuff, an armor debuff, and a heal debuff, + damage!
The Marauder doesn't need significant nerfs though, and I've explained in this thread numerous times. The WL needs buffs, as does the Choppa.
"your rotation make any sense "
where i had wrote any rotation sy?
.......
let's start from what you said , as you said "Brawler" if wl/mara have to behaviour like this, you don't think even a little that mara need a nerf? i mean i am ok to make him able to choose if act more like a brawler or more like a berserk like you said but being both.... camon
mara need a nerf, your estimation that mara dont need a nerf show as you never play against it
mara st do more damage than choppa/slayer so this is very wrong The fact that you can kill something alone is the very reason why something need a nerf you should not be able to easy kill nothing guarded in this game.
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mara wl dont' have anti healer tools?
mara:
deadly cluth
touch of instability
insane whisper ( the onnly thta need to be spec)
mount of tzeench
wl
silence
50% outcoming heal debuff
punce itself.
the set of these skills exist to use them against healers, while wl can be not on top of his role he dosen't stand in a wrong role lime mara, mara can arm both push on healer like Wl could but he can also do more damage than choppa/slayer that is wrong.
Simply put, I'm done with trying to have a logical discussion with you because it is apparently clear you don't know what you are talking about.
Having a high post count does not mean you know what you are talking about, nor does it mean that the content of your posts is good.
You act like any Marauder is going to spec Insane Whispers? LOL? And you act like Touch of Instability is some kind of good "anti-healer tool" (it doesn't scale, its absolutely terrible damage). It is extremely clear you don't really know much about the Marauder class, how it works, what i can do, and what fixes it may need. Your suggestions to fix the class are essentially to nerf it down to where it can't play as a viable MDPS anymore. Hurr durr you have to choose between damage and utility, but other MDPS won't have to! You think that the Marauder does better damage than the Slayer and Choppa, thats absolutely, 100% wrong and shows a funadmental misunderstanding of how this game works, etc...
And when you compare classes, try not to be so biased in the future. You list all of the Marauders "anti-heal" tools (two of which are pure garabge), and not all the WLs. As I stated before, the Marauder does not have a good amount of anti-healing tools. In fact, it doesn't even have that good tools in compared to other MDPS classes.
1. Tainted Claw/Deadly Clutch - To get a 50% heal debuff like the Choppa, Slayer, WH, and WE, the Marauder NEEDS TO SPEND A TACTIC SLOT THAT THEY DON'T. THATS A BAD THING. This means that Choppas/Slayers/WH/and WE already are more anti-healer than a Marauder, as they can run full dps tactics AND have a 50% healing debuff.
2. Touch of Instability IS NOT WORTH A GCD OUTSIDE OF T2. ITS A HORRIBLE ABILITY THAT HAS NO SCALING.
3. Insane Whispers is a garabge tactic that isn't any good, is 7 points up the Marauders worst path, and nobody would ever slot because its horrible.
4. Mouth of Tzeentch is ok. It's an AoE interrupt. You can't use it while you are in DPS stance.
That realistically means that the Marauders "anti-healer tools" are TWO ABILITIES, ONE OF WHICH NEEDS A TACTIC EQUIPPED AND SPECED FOR TO BE EQUAL TO WHAT OTHER MDPS CAN DO.
Marauders are not "anti-healer DPS", you do not know what you are talking about.
Lets compare other MDPS as anti-healers shall we?
Slayer;
1. Has a 50% incoming heal debuff that doesn't require a tactic slot used.
2. Has a core knockdown.
3. Has Inevitable Doom.
= Slayer is already a better anti-healer than Marauder.
Choppa;
1. Has a 50% incoming heal debuff that doesn't require a tactic slot.
2. Has a core knockdown.
3. Has a 50% outgoing heal debuff.
(Has some other tools like Tired Already? that are of questionable use).
= Choppa is already a better anti-healer than Marauder.
Do I need to go into the rest of the MDPS classes or can we leave it at that? If the WL had an incoming healing debuff instead of an outgoing, they'd be 10 times better anti-healer than Marauders, but they don't (yet).