Warrior Priest Guide (Hey this works for DoKs too!)

[bloodi]

While investing points into something with no return is a clear trap i would argue that for casters and specially hybrids, is impossible to function without being able to rely on your rotations and key spells being disrupted randomly.

Its not fun for anyone when the only times i am able to have impact are when the RNG decides i can, i would like to know that if i get x in y stat, i no longer have to fight against the dice gods for a chance of having my rotation not disrupted.

So i would much rather have the Live system but hey, i can see merits in both.

[TenTonHammer]

if bloodi ever played xcom i think that they would blow a gasket

anyway i prefer the new ror system if nothing else but for the no longer necessary point sink thing

[Genisaurus]

While investing points into something with no return is a clear trap i would argue that for casters and specially hybrids, is impossible to function without being able to rely on your rotations and key spells being disrupted randomly.

Its not fun for anyone when the only times i am able to have impact are when the RNG decides i can, i would like to know that if i get x in y stat, i no longer have to fight against the dice gods for a chance of having my rotation not disrupted.

So i would much rather have the Live system but hey, i can see merits in both.

The best solution is rarely the easiest. I disagree on principle with having to invest a significant (or any, really) number of points just to have a 0% chance to defend. On the other hand, all of the renown skills and ability buffs were designed for the old equations, and I can agree that as a result of the two mixing, defenses are currently too high.

I would say the solution is not to change the equations, which do a good job at preventing base defenses chances from going into the negative, but to slash renown skills and ability buffs across the board by some amount to compensate. Alternatively, change itemization or introduce new renown skills to focus on strikethrough as an investable stat.

But that veers into "balance discussion" territory, which is closed for now.

[bloodi]

if bloodi ever played xcom i think that they would blow a gasket

If you ever properly played xcom you would know the game is actually about moving optimally so you do not have to rely on those chances.

That was the whole point.

I disagree on principle with having to invest a significant (or any, really) number of points just to have a 0% chance to defend. On the other hand, all of the renown skills and ability buffs were designed for the old equations, and I can agree that as a result of the two mixing, defenses are currently too high.

I would say the solution is not to change the equations, which do a good job at preventing base defenses chances from going into the negative, but to slash renown skills and ability buffs across the board by some amount to compensate. Alternatively, change itemization or introduce new renown skills to focus on strikethrough as an investable stat.

But that veers into "balance discussion" territory, which is closed for now.

Melees have an option to negate rng defenses, they can just attack you from behind, casters do not have such a thing, if you disagree with the principle of being able to itemize to be able to negate rng, what gives casters a reliable option like melee has?

The game is imo, designed around such things, you cannot do your work properly when you have to battle against a dice to see if 1 of the 5 skills will work or not, specially when they all have different impact and its not the same that your Ignite gets disrupted that your BB does.

I am not saying we should be able to negate a tank avoidance but a healer or dps? We totally should.

IF maybe we should not get it purely from the main stat is another discussion but being able to know all your skills will work when you need them, is a must and if given the option between more overall damage and being able to land all your skills, good players will choose the later in 99% of cases.

[Genisaurus]

I disagree on principle with having to invest a significant (or any, really) number of points just to have a 0% chance to defend. On the other hand, all of the renown skills and ability buffs were designed for the old equations, and I can agree that as a result of the two mixing, defenses are currently too high.

I would say the solution is not to change the equations, which do a good job at preventing base defenses chances from going into the negative, but to slash renown skills and ability buffs across the board by some amount to compensate. Alternatively, change itemization or introduce new renown skills to focus on strikethrough as an investable stat.

But that veers into "balance discussion" territory, which is closed for now.

Melees have an option to negate rng defenses, they can just attack you from behind, casters do not have such a thing, if you disagree with the principle of being able to itemize to be able to negate rng, what gives casters a reliable option like melee has?

The game is imo, designed around such things, you cannot do your work properly when you have to battle against a dice to see if 1 of the 5 skills will work or not, specially when they all have different impact and its not the same that your Ignite gets disrupted that your BB does.

I am not saying we should be able to negate a tank avoidance but a healer or dps? We totally should.

IF maybe we should not get it purely from the main stat is another discussion but being able to know all your skills will work when you need them, is a must and if given the option between more overall damage and being able to land all your skills, good players will choose the later in 99% of cases.

1. I don't disagree with an itemization approach to the issue, and I said as much. Having Disrupt Strikethrough% added to more items, or increasing the value on items that already carry the stat, is on the table. My only objection would be that it's messy, and I generally don't like addressing mechanical balance issues with gear.

2. Melee being able to negate strikethrough by running around an opponent is a moot point - that works exactly the same here as it did on live. Moreover, melee still get strikethrough from their primary stats, just like RDPS.

So it doesn't sound like we disagree?

[TenTonHammer]

If you ever properly played xcom you would know the game is actually about moving optimally so you do not have to rely on those chances.

That was the whole point.

>Dodged

hue hue hue

[bloodi]

1. I don't disagree with an itemization approach to the issue, and I said as much. Having Disrupt Strikethrough% added to more items, or increasing the value on items that already carry the stat, is on the table. My only objection would be that it's messy, and I generally don't like addressing mechanical balance issues with gear.

2. Melee being able to negate strikethrough by running around an opponent is a moot point - that works exactly the same here as it did on live. Moreover, melee still get strikethrough from their primary stats, just like RDPS.

So it doesn't sound like we disagree?

Yeah but the point is that the itemization was already there, int would already solve the problem but right now, with the current implementation, it does not, why would we want extra work when the system is already in place and it works?

And the thing about melee is that they have that option, they dont have to itemize for it, rdps can only stack a stat to solve it and right now, we are even unable to do so.

Thats why i would rather get the Live system where stacking main stat would negate Renown, its much better than not having an option at all and the work would have to be done on the renown skills, not the itemization, whichh imo, is a much lesser task.

[Genisaurus]

Yeah but the point is that the itemization was already there, int would already solve the problem but right now, with the current implementation, it does not, why would we want extra work when the system is already in place and it works?

And the thing about melee is that they have that option, they dont have to itemize for it, rdps can only stack a stat to solve it and right now, we are even unable to do so.

Thats why i would rather get the Live system where stacking main stat would negate Renown, its much better than not having an option at all and the work would have to be done on the renown skills, not the itemization, whichh imo, is a much lesser task.

I see what you're saying now. The problem with addressing the "main stat stacking" is that having softcap of your offensive stat as a DPS is a given in T4, except perhaps as a Rifleman Engineer. It's not like there was ever a viable endgame build that didn't entail softcapping Strength/Ballistic Skill/Intelligence. Not as a goal - it was just so easy it was expected. If I'm considering my chances against a Sorc, I am always going to assume that sorc has 1050 Int, because why wouldn't she?

So I don't think that "main stat stacking" should negate renown entirely. I could settle for a middle ground, which we could either achieve by specifically changing the equation for Disrupt, or reducing the values given by Deft Defender.

I don't mind the effort entailed in itemization, but one idea for a shortcut would be to just give staffs a base disrupt strikethrough%. Dodge is less of an issue, because it's only mitigated by Initiative, which is almost always low across the board, for every class except stealthers.

[Penril]

If you ever properly played xcom you would know the game is actually about moving optimally so you do not have to rely on those chances.

That was the whole point.

>Dodged

hue hue hue

Xcom is about reloading everytime you lose a good soldier.

Or crashing your game when this happens (if playing on Ironman mode).

[magter3001]

Xcom is about reloading everytime you lose a good soldier.

Or crashing your game when this happens (if playing on Ironman mode).

Or rage quiting

Yup. I don't think the Bruglir formula is perfect for the current game state. But I don't agree with free 30% strikethrough either. In the future, we need a rethink of how strikethrough is generated, either through renown stats or adjusting base stats, to make sure that we neither have the trap situation of basic 30% strikethrough on every DPS, requring you to have above 30% parry/disrupt/dodge before you get any benefit at all, nor the uncounterable defense situation of current Return of Reckoning.

That explains so much... was wondering why having ballistics capped on my SH still caused so many dodges...Wasn't that way on live, that's for sure.