[Suggestion] Debuff for being afk in SC

[bloodi]

You compare someone with max pots to someone with no pots,with good talis to 0 talis.
Great job, you proved nothing.
.

What i am going to compare? People with equal gear on everything?

You are the one who started talking about what can be the stat difference, the stat difference between someone 26 with just pve grind, no pots, no talis and so on, is much greater than 100.

With pots: don't really know don't use them, you can get more from group buffs. (yes premade>gear again)
Maybe good pot 50, bad pot 30, so 20 stat points here.

Yeah or i could get group buffs and pots, like anyone with a brain but congrats on bringing up the "we are the best premade ever" again in the argument because it seems thats your only way to retort anything.

Come back later.

Edit: Honestly you shouldn't count pots anyway, str pot 50, knight buffs more, rp buffs more int/bal, dok boffs more armor etc.
So it would be 102 stat points.

Honestly, you are a **** idiot.

Why would you not count pots, seriously, what the **** are you even about? You cant have more than 6 in a group, i thougth that someone who sucks his own **** about his premade so much would see that already. With pots you can make your WP run things that are not armor aura, make your RP the one buffing res and so on, of course you count pots.

[Penril]

I actually agree with Tomato. The gear gap is not as big as some say. Yes, it is huge if you are lvl 12 and fight against lvl 20s, but that's your fault for doing SCs at that level. The sane thing to do would be to level up a bit (or be carried by your guildies/premade).

Premade > gear. I have seen it all the time, where even a lvl 22-25 premade coordinating in TS or Vent constantly beats lvl 26 pugs. Gear only makes a difference when both teams are kinda on the same skill level.

And not that i want to defend Tomato (or he needs it), but i dont think he has ever said "we are the best premade ever" in this thread. Maybe on other ones, but not this one (in fact the one who loves saying that is Bretin and not Tomato).

TL;DR: If you solo join SCs while being low level, with low lvl gear, not even using talismans or your RAs, and get spawn camped by a premade, it is entirely your fault. Dont blame other people for playing the game exactly the way it should be played.

[Azuzu]

I actually agree with tomato. The gear gap is not as big as some say. Yes, it is huge if you are lvl 12 and fight against lvl 20s, but that's your fault for doing SCs at that level. The sane thing to do would be to level up a bit (or be carried by your guildies/premade).

Premade > gear. I have seen it all the time, where even a lvl 22-25 premade coordinating in TS or Vent constantly beats lvl 26 pugs. Gear only makes a difference when both teams are kinda on the same skill level.

And not that i want to defend Tomato (or he needs it), but i dont think he has ever said "we are the best premade ever" in this thread. Maybe on other ones, but not this one.

TL;DR: If you solo join SCs while being low level, with low lvl gear, not even using talismans or your RAs, and get spawn camped by a premade, it is entirely your fault. Dont blame other people for playing the game exactly the way it should be played.

I don't think anyone is claiming gear is more important than group coordination or composition. It's silly when people blame gear differences for why they are losing. If you want to get better, good players look at what they did wrong and what in their control they can change and improve on.

I think what's being said, at least by myself is that gear does make a difference. It's situational, but the gear/renown gap can be a big one. The difference between someone with best in slot talis and rr40 to someone in pve lvl 18ish greens is huge. It can also be a small one, both using sentry gear, just with tali differences.


I think the biggest thing that gives premades an edge over pugs is group composition. Sometimes a pug won't even have a healer. A group with 2 healers, 2 tanks, 2 dps (or 2/1/3) has a huge advantage. A big enough one that they can simply screw around and play joke on voip without having to communicate much and still win (from personal experience).

[bloodi]

I actually agree with tomato. The gear gap is not as big as some say. Yes, it is huge if you are lvl 12 and fight against lvl 20s, but that's your fault for doing SCs at that level. The sane thing to do would be to level up a bit (or be carried by your guildies/premade).

Premade > gear. I have seen it all the time, where even a lvl 22-25 premade coordinating in TS or Vent constantly beats lvl 26 pugs. Gear only makes a difference when both teams are kinda on the same skill level.

And not that i want to defend Tomato (or he needs it), but i dont think he has ever said "we are the best premade ever" in this thread. Maybe on other ones, but not this one.

No, the gear gap can be quite noticeable between a 22 and a 26, is not a matter of levels, is a matter of time, getting pots, talismans and gear requires a fair amount of time and the stat difference is much more than 100, thats all i am arguing.

But somehow, you and him seem to believe that when comparing pure maths is relevant to talk about how good a premade is, no **** sherlock.

Yeah, a premade will beat gear differences, thanks for the insight illuminaties.

And if you want to backtrack, it all started here, with Najin talking about how "there was no gear difference"

[Azuzu]

I actually agree with tomato. The gear gap is not as big as some say. Yes, it is huge if you are lvl 12 and fight against lvl 20s, but that's your fault for doing SCs at that level. The sane thing to do would be to level up a bit (or be carried by your guildies/premade).

Premade > gear. I have seen it all the time, where even a lvl 22-25 premade coordinating in TS or Vent constantly beats lvl 26 pugs. Gear only makes a difference when both teams are kinda on the same skill level.

And not that i want to defend Tomato (or he needs it), but i dont think he has ever said "we are the best premade ever" in this thread. Maybe on other ones, but not this one.

No, the gear gap can be quite noticeable between a 22 and a 26, is not a matter of levels, is a matter of time, getting pots, talismans and gear requires a fair amount of time and the stat difference is much more than 100, thats all i am arguing.

But somehow, you and him seem to believe that when comparing pure maths is relevant to talk about how good a premade is, no **** sherlock.

Yeah, a premade will beat gear differences, thanks for the insight illuminaties.

And if you want to backtrack, it all started here, with Najin talking about how "there was no gear difference"

The reason premades are being brought up was because of the original content of this thread. People afking because they are being killed over and over.

The original posters wants them penalized for doing so. Others disagreed with him, saying people shouldn't be forced to be demoralized by a premade they have no chance at being (for whatever reason, be it gear, lack of skill, voip, class composition, ect.)

[Penril]

No, the gear gap can be quite noticeable between a 22 and a 26, is not a matter of levels, is a matter of time, getting pots, talismans and gear requires a fair amount of time and the stat difference is much more than 100, thats all i am arguing.

But somehow, you and him seem to believe that when comparing pure maths is relevant to talk about how good a premade is, no **** sherlock.

Yeah, a premade will beat gear differences, thanks for the insight illuminaties.

And if you want to backtrack, it all started here, with Najin talking about how "there was no gear difference"

Between level 22 and 26 there are other imbalances WAY more important than gear. For starters, some dps classes get their incoming heal debuffs at lvl 25. Same with some tanks and their KD. BGs dont get their superpunt till 25. And so on...

It is relevant to talk about premades because coordination will win the fight in the end. Your pug group might have more "math" on their side (better gear, talismans, whatever) but if they attack different targets or dont have optimun, synergized specs, they won't kill anything. A premade with less "math" (worse gear) will still group and spec accordingly (will probably have a KD, a superpunt, an inc heal debuff, maybe a ranged snare and/or AoE snare, will definitely have heals, etc.). They will then coordinate and focus the same targets, while protecting their backlines if needed.

Geared-up pug will have all their "math" across the SC, while the premade will have all their "math" on the same target. It's really not that hard to understand.

As for your link, that was Nanji and not Tomato.

[Euan]

I actually agree with tomato. The gear gap is not as big as some say. Yes, it is huge if you are lvl 12 and fight against lvl 20s, but that's your fault for doing SCs at that level. The sane thing to do would be to level up a bit (or be carried by your guildies/premade).

Premade > gear. I have seen it all the time, where even a lvl 22-25 premade coordinating in TS or Vent constantly beats lvl 26 pugs. Gear only makes a difference when both teams are kinda on the same skill level.

And not that i want to defend Tomato (or he needs it), but i dont think he has ever said "we are the best premade ever" in this thread. Maybe on other ones, but not this one.

TL;DR: If you solo join SCs while being low level, with low lvl gear, not even using talismans or your RAs, and get spawn camped by a premade, it is entirely your fault. Dont blame other people for playing the game exactly the way it should be played.

I don't think anyone is claiming gear is more important than group coordination or composition. It's silly when people blame gear differences for why they are losing. If you want to get better, good players look at what they did wrong and what in their control they can change and improve on.

I think what's being said, at least by myself is that gear does make a difference. It's situational, but the gear/renown gap can be a big one. The difference between someone with best in slot talis and rr40 to someone in pve lvl 18ish greens is huge. It can also be a small one, both using sentry gear, just with tali differences.


I think the biggest thing that gives premades an edge over pugs is group composition. Sometimes a pug won't even have a healer. A group with 2 healers, 2 tanks, 2 dps (or 2/1/3) has a huge advantage. A big enough one that they can simply screw around and play joke on voip without having to communicate much and still win (from personal experience).

You are most definitely right on that. I mentioned its many factors, premade included. I don't disagree with anything you said as it only adds to my case except RvR > Scenarios, I enjoy both equally and I have thrown myself to their premade previously but I don't think others should have to.

[bloodi]

Between level 22 and 26 there are other imbalances WAY more important than gear. For starters, some dps classes get their incoming heal debuffs at lvl 25. Same with some tanks and their KD. BGs dont get their superpunt till 25. And so on...

Yeah and if my mother had wheels and a chimeney, she would be a vapor train. However we were talking about how big the stat difference can be, thanks for your insight though.

It is relevant to talk about premades because coordination will win the fight in the end..

Yeah just as relevant to talk about what color the sky is when talking about how much is 5+4. Because like it or not, that is the point, if your argument to "stat differences may be higher than 100" is "premades are what win games" you may as well mention that two parts of oxygen and one of hydrogen makes water, yeah its true but so **** what?

As for your link, that was Nanji and not Tomato.

I am sure you can make an effort and get the head out of between your legs and continue reading to see why i linked it, Nanjin started talking about stat differences being non existant, euan proved him wrong and tomato came in to save his guildie day.

The reason premades are being brought up was because of the original content of this thread. People afking because they are being killed over and over.

The original posters wants them penalized for doing so. Others disagreed with him, saying people shouldn't be forced to be demoralized by a premade they have no chance at being (for whatever reason, be it gear, lack of skill, voip, class composition, ect.)

Again, for the last time, the last two pages are about if there is a gear difference, if your argument against it is "but premades make up for it" then you may as well have no argument.

Knives didnt stop killing people because there was nuclear bombs.

[Penril]

lol k

[Azuzu]

You are most definitely right on that. I mentioned its many factors, premade included. I don't disagree with anything you said as it only adds to my case except RvR > Scenarios, I enjoy both equally and I have thrown myself to their premade previously but I don't think others should have to.

If anything I wouldn't mind seeing a surrender option. In my opinion, afking in the spawn waste everyones time.


RvR > SCs are just a personal opinion thing. I don't knock anyone for playing SCs. I tend just to roam and open world when I'm running with a group more so than SC. I love the unexpected dynamic nature of open world. Fights take place at different places, vs different amounts of people, ect. Within an SC, the mape is small, you know the classes your fighting, ect. You don't have to react on the fly as much to unexpected incomings.

The only problem is during my time zone there aren't many organized groups that roam. It seems like they either do SCs or it's a bunch of people zerging mindlessly.