current rvr meta

[Penril]

It's up to the community to make the game they want to see. The devs can't force them to do they type of PvP the devs want them to do.

I kinda disagree here. Devs can actually force people to do a certain type of PvP. This is a F2P game so they are not risking losing any money if some players leave.

If it were up to me i would drastically change a LOT of things. I don't care if people leave; i prefer doing RvR with 100 people WILLING TO DO PVP instead of playing with 700-800 that avoid fights at all costs and just want easy renown and rewards.

[Azuzu]

It's up to the community to make the game they want to see. The devs can't force them to do they type of PvP the devs want them to do.

I kinda disagree here. Devs can actually force people to do a certain type of PvP. This is a F2P game so they are not risking losing any money if some players leave.

If it were up to me i would drastically change a LOT of things. I don't care if people leave; i prefer doing RvR with 100 people WILLING TO DO PVP instead of playing with 700-800 that avoid fights at all costs and just want easy renown and rewards.

They really can't force anyone to do anything. Force means I have to do it....if people don't enjoy it they will simply stop playing. (Which I'm assuming you already know, hence the kind of disagree hehe)

The best they can do is encourage people to play a certain way, by making it the most profitable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the system doesn't need to be changed. I'm simply saying, you have a choice. You don't HAVE to do whatever the quickest best way to renown is.

Last night for example, I both defended and took a keep. We could have kept the fighting at our keep with 400% AAO by not wiping Order, but we didn't because fighting > rewards.

[thullonse]

thanks to the change that we get more rr while defending a keep / bo both faction have decided to not leave their keeps anymore. this is now going on for 1 week. i dont know what else has to happen to show that people will take the path of least resistance to get their stuff faster (rr40 in this case).

imo its completly fine that people are defending keeps now. the problem is that everything else isnt worth a dime

Those statement seem contradictory. Your first one was being upset because all people want to do is defend keeps and then you go and say that it is fine. Which is it?

BO's are worth a dime because
A) You still get a reward for capping
B) You have to have enough BO's to attack the keeps
C) Not enough BO's = No keep attack

AAO is back and (seemingly) working on top of the already increased renown yield for killing in the lakes.

So what is the issue exactly? How people are defending keeps? You can change the system but they will just find a way around it. Prevent them from being able to exploit it and you reduce (possibly eliminate) the ability or effectiveness of the attempted exploitation.

* Edited: Had misrepresented author of 2nd quote.

people are just defending their keep even if they outnumber the other faction because its more profitable to defend than to attack. im fine with defending because else we would have PvDoor again.

[Penril]

They really can't force anyone to do anything. Force means I have to do it....if people don't enjoy it they will simply stop playing.

I expressed myself incorrectly. They can't force you to play a certain way, but they can certainly remove easy-mode rewards. If some stop playing, they probly won't be missed.

[Euan]

It's up to the community to make the game they want to see. The devs can't force them to do they type of PvP the devs want them to do.

I kinda disagree here. Devs can actually force people to do a certain type of PvP. This is a F2P game so they are not risking losing any money if some players leave.

If it were up to me i would drastically change a LOT of things. I don't care if people leave; i prefer doing RvR with 100 people WILLING TO DO PVP instead of playing with 700-800 that avoid fights at all costs and just want easy renown and rewards.

thing is that you can get them to want to pvp by having players drop currency instead of keeps. Shouldn't force anything, or you get things like you get right now. You tried to have 2 factions collide by locking them in 1 zone and stuff like this happens.

[Azuzu]

They really can't force anyone to do anything. Force means I have to do it....if people don't enjoy it they will simply stop playing.

I expressed myself incorrectly. They can't force you to play a certain way, but they can certainly remove easy-mode rewards. If some stop playing, they probly won't be missed.

Oh no I completely agree, I got your jist too. I knew what you were going for, I shouldn't have nitpicked the way your expressed it.


I wouldn't mind seeing the rewards for taking a keep scale with the number of defenders inside. If you take a keep vs 50 people instead you should be rewarded for it.

I don't think it should be time based, because I don't know if 50 people should be rewarded for taking 2 hours to zerg down 6 people.

thing is that you can get them to want to pvp by having players drop currency instead of keeps. Shouldn't force anything, or you get things like you get right now. You tried to have 2 factions collide by locking them in 1 zone and stuff like this happens.

I agree 100%, I'd love to see other players drop currency in oRvR. I'm selfish tho and I like that because it fits well with the playstyle I enjoy.

The thing is, you run into the same issue being debated in this thread. if players drop currency, the best way to farm said players would be defending.

People want attacking to be worth as much as defending. This was an issue people complained about on live as well. The zerg would bitch that the 6 guys with AAO were getting way better renown than they were.

What I'm saying is I haven't noticed a decrease in people attacking keeps in my time zone. The zerg hits the keep hard for both factions all the same. The only difference is people are inside now fighting back and getting good renown for it.

[bloodi]

My point is people make the game they want to play. I want to roam and fight people, so that's what I do. Even when it was horrible renown to roam, fight and defend, it's what I'd do because I enjoy fighting in oRvR.

Great, up to you, however the game a lot of people want to play revolves around keep sieges and they would love to be rewarded equally for it be in attack or in defense.

And sorry grandpa, we know you had to go up a montain and travel 10km to play a football match and you liked it that way, made for a great warmup but that doesnt mean that now sending the kids on a bus is a bad idea and we should not do it.

It's up to the community to make the game they want to see. The devs can't force them to do they type of PvP the devs want them to do.

I am not sure who argued otherwise, so, ok?

Aside, from that your posts are childish, you seem to be mad at me when we don't really know each other. If you want to have a debate I'm for it. If you want to act like a whiny douche bag that's up to you, but it doesn't accomplish much. :-/

Play WAR the way you want and I'll play the way I want. I just hate seeing people cry there is only one way to play.....because your making a choice to play like that. If you want to see a change in RvR, put a group together and do something about it.

Sorry but that coming from someone that when people is talking about keep sieges and their rewards comes to talk about how great his renown gains are in roam and that people should stop talking and play, well, its laughable.

Because that is a childish argument, everyone shut up and play the game like i do, i dont want to hear anything.

And i dont have anything against you, at all but i also dont see how your talking about your renown gains roaming is at all related to how profitable is to defend or attack a keep.

Because, hell, it seems like you are all up to let everyone play like they want, as long as is roaming 6vs6 only.

There is a place for everyone i think.

I kinda disagree here. Devs can actually force people to do a certain type of PvP. This is a F2P game so they are not risking losing any money if some players leave.

If it were up to me i would drastically change a LOT of things. I don't care if people leave; i prefer doing RvR with 100 people WILLING TO DO PVP instead of playing with 700-800 that avoid fights at all costs and just want easy renown and rewards.

I find this line of thought very troubling, is like we didnt learn anything from this game demise.

Specially when i saw it for years in the FGC and how desperate they are currently to overcome it, you do NOT want that, what you want is both and you can get them.

Let zergers zerg and have fun and you will have much more yourself.

[Abolition]

I agree 100%, I'd love to see other players drop currency in oRvR. I'm selfish tho and I like that because it fits well with the playstyle I enjoy.

The thing is, you run into the same issue being debated in this thread. if players drop currency, the best way to farm said players would be defending.

People want attacking to be worth as much as defending. This was an issue people complained about on live as well. The zerg would bitch that the 6 guys with AAO were getting way better renown than they were.

What I'm saying is I haven't noticed a decrease in people attacking keeps in my time zone. The zerg hits the keep hard for both factions all the same. The only difference is people are inside now fighting back and getting good renown for it.

People inside are fighting back so much that we are seeing instances where this is all people want to do and we have situations where both sides are sitting in their keeps because it is much better rewards.

I messed up the quote snipping but I agree 100% that the rewards should scale with the number of people.

[Azuzu]

Stuff You said

The conversation seemed to be going in the direction that only defending was good renown. I was pointing out that orvr fighting in general is great renown. It doesn't just have to be from defending a keep.

My point is people do have options, aside from defending, that give great renown. I don't think the system is perfect, I think it needs to be reworked. However, the idea that the system atm forces you to defend if you want to make renown is false, in my opinion.


That being said, I'm all for people taking and defending keeps. I agree that the rewards for taking keeps should be increased directly related to the amount of people inside defending. If you take 4 hours to take a heavy guarded keep, you should be rewarded for it.


So in the end, I think we mostly agree. I don't want to discourage zergers from zerging, I just don't want it to be the BEST way to get renown. Anything I can do half-afk watching movies shouldn't give the best reward.

People inside are fighting back so much that we are seeing instances where this is all people want to do and we have situations where both sides are sitting in their keeps because it is much better rewards.

I messed up the quote snipping but I agree 100% that the rewards should scale with the number of people.

This has to be a time zone thing, from my experience. We wipe the attacks off the keep and often times we go and take theirs.

I do think, hard fought battles should be rewarded.

Also, you have to keep in mind, people taking keeps and zerging want to feel like they win. If your the attacking side, you get that feeling of winning as well, by being the aggressor. Just a week or two ago, there was a big thing on the forums, about how Destro doesn't feel like it wins, so it has poor moral. lol

[Disc0nnected1]

Perhaps this is the natural progression of armed conflict. Why do keeps exist? They are big stone houses where you have the best chance of not getting killed (accept for dysentery, cholera, the plague...).

So perhaps our little world of reckoning is evolving to the next stage of political evolution. We can get more political in who is attacked, who isn't? Remember in live when Guilds could claim keeps.

Perhaps we should put together expletory committees to review the benefits of creating trade agreements for crafting mats and.... Wait, India just declared war on me, and they have Nukes so it looks like I'm going to have to give them Monotheism. Nevermind.