Return of Reckoning

Correct WL and MRD should be below choppa and slayer in RAW damage as well as sorc/bw

More armour, pulls, aoe util is why

It was the devs themselves that buffed wb builds of the two classes and created the situation where 50-60% of order mdps (rr60+) are WLs 24/7. As WLs are quite potent as a solo roam as well. Lets not talk about not killing regen tanks bc that is a red herring

Ps gadding another hdbuff on fort weapon on top off highest butst was another brilliant move that will make balancing the class near impossible.

Ds. Nerfing slays (warranted) and bw/sorc mechanics further amplified the imbalance

I'd be happy if they fixed the WL pet running at full speed in water.

Bozzax wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:50 am Correct WL and MRD should be below choppa and slayer in RAW damage as well as sorc/bw

More armour, pulls, aoe util is why

It was the devs themselves that buffed wb builds of the two classes and created the situation where 50-60% of order mdps (rr60+) are WLs 24/7. As WLs are quite potent as a solo roam as well. Lets not talk about not killing regen tanks bc that is a red herring

Ps gadding another hdbuff on fort weapon on top off highest butst was another brilliant move that will make balancing the class near impossible.

Ds. Nerfing slays (warranted) and bw/sorc mechanics further amplified the imbalance

Damage potential of geared Choppa/Slayer is higher than WL/Mara.

Battlefield wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 2:08 pm

Bozzax wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:50 am Correct WL and MRD should be below choppa and slayer in RAW damage as well as sorc/bw

More armour, pulls, aoe util is why

It was the devs themselves that buffed wb builds of the two classes and created the situation where 50-60% of order mdps (rr60+) are WLs 24/7. As WLs are quite potent as a solo roam as well. Lets not talk about not killing regen tanks bc that is a red herring

Ps gadding another hdbuff on fort weapon on top off highest butst was another brilliant move that will make balancing the class near impossible.

Ds. Nerfing slays (warranted) and bw/sorc mechanics further amplified the imbalance

Damage potential of geared Choppa/Slayer is higher than WL/Mara.

Potential vs Average. theres a reason the slayer population has dropped so dramatically.

This reason called prok meta. And even it was nerfed most guild wb still autopilot on lions/bw choppa/sorks. When after few years people start realise how that quiet patch hited sork/bw, u will see 8lion wbs. Think we saw first one recently. Not because lion OP. Just because other classes dont really needed. So instead of breaking working lion, maybe start looking where other classes underperform, and why org WB pref to use lions instead of mix of every class that bring something uniq to table as it should be. Now we have situation where all classes do nearly same amount of dmg. So lion is logical way to go, they simple as fk 2 button spamer with more surw/mobility than bws, more mobility than slays, good morale drop, dont need to die from backlashes/red, dont need to charge mechanic, dont need piano rotation and zero armor like aoe sw. And you wonder why nowadays comunity spaming lion? Its not because lion OP, its because its easy, and overall class rvr balance after patches is wrecked. Im still in shock how people dont see how much harm was done to ws dps tanks, and casters after ws/disrupt patches. But instead of fixing things that really matter here we are again - #nerflion. Cos its easier to ruin something that is working, instead of fixing everything.

Sever1n wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 3:13 pm This reason called prok meta. And even it was nerfed most guild wb still autopilot on lions/bw choppa/sorks. When after few years people start realise how that quiet patch hited sork/bw, u will see 8lion wbs. Think we saw first one recently. Not because lion OP. Just because other classes dont really needed. So instead of breaking working lion, maybe start looking where other classes underperform, and why org WB pref to use lions instead of mix of every class that bring something uniq to table as it should be. Now we have situation where all classes do nearly same amount of dmg. So lion is logical way to go, they simple as fk 2 button spamer with more surw/mobility than bws, more mobility than slays, good morale drop, dont need to die from backlashes/red, dont need to charge mechanic, dont need piano rotation and zero armor like aoe sw. And you wonder why nowadays comunity spaming lion? Its not because lion OP, its because its easy, and overall class rvr balance after patches is wrecked. Im still in shock how people dont see how much harm was done to ws dps tanks, and casters after ws/disrupt patches. But instead of fixing things that really matter here we are again - #nerflion. Cos its easier to ruin something that is working, instead of fixing everything.

While i agree other classes need to be looked at (save us DPS patch). increasing the overall strength of order to WL level will only lead to destruction players leaving in mass. Top performers should be adjusted down. Bottom performers should be adjusted up. WL should be the Mara of destro. solid melee with the most utility/tankiness. not the bursty maniac with heal debuff proc it is now. give that identity to slayer>
but classes arent meant to be direct mirrors/identical yadda yadda yadda. nerf mara, nerf WL, nerf anything that kills me in a lake. the side im currently not playing is OP.

or we jump the shark and make everyone bursty. dramatically lower the TTK. light armor classes will never be the same.

How long you still want WL to fullfill the role of a "jack of all trades device" no-brainer , wich is the first choice for every average dps player?
It allready feels like there is an Africa event goin on in every zone, cause you only see lions everywhere...
sometimes you cant see your own toon in rvr, cause its surrounded by 5-6 cats, while their owners are busy with spinning around - or running away... xD

This run-away gameplay meta instead of fight is just annoying... no chance to chase, cause while running away, the average WL just calls a new pet wich dismount or cc you. And if you keep chasing and ignore the pet, it will kill you, cause its ridiculously strong and faster than you! Just to inform you, the pet doesnt die in AoE dmg, its getting focused, cause its too strong! Yes, destro players take the time to focus your pets in fight and kill it first! To balance the fight! Cause otherwise you feel outnumbered against this pve support of one million npc cats. Thats the situation. Play destro, experience it, and agree...

And now we got a serious call here, to push the pet even more
I still cant take this serious, sorry. Its trolling or insanity...

For real, this WL-everywhere situation has to come to an end. It has gotten out of control.
+1 for nerf WL until it disappears into obscurity, instead of making it even stronger...

[quote=kleinbuchstabe post_id=575967 time=1749228330 user_id=101200]
How long you still want WL to fullfill the role of a "jack of all trades device" no-brainer , wich is the first choice for every average dps player?
It allready feels like there is an Africa event goin on in every zone, cause you only see lions everywhere...
sometimes you cant see your own toon in rvr, cause its surrounded by 5-6 cats, while their owners are busy with spinning around - or running away... xD

This run-away gameplay meta instead of fight is just annoying... no chance to chase, cause while running away, the average WL just calls a new pet wich dismount or cc you. And if you keep chasing and ignore the pet, it will kill you, cause its ridiculously strong and faster than you! Just to inform you, the pet doesnt die in AoE dmg, its getting focused, cause its too strong! Yes, destro players take the time to focus your pets in fight and kill it first! To balance the fight! Cause otherwise you feel outnumbered against this pve support of one million npc cats. Thats the situation. Play destro, experience it, and agree...

And now we got a serious call here, to push the pet even more
I still cant take this serious, sorry. Its trolling or insanity...

For real, this WL-everywhere situation has to come to an end. It has gotten out of control.
+1 for nerf WL until it disappears into obscurity, instead of making it even stronger...
[/quote]

That's true.
I have WL - Faacundo if U want to check killboard.

Iam in HV gear still because i bought Triumph ring as first item. Atm both triumph and sov ring waiting in the bank while still farming crests....
Or to be honest I WAS farming.

Why past form?
Because i already feel like i reached everything with this Class.

In 1v1 or even 1vX wl can one/two shoot squishy classes. Just pop LF, Kd when pet runing U pounce. When pet Reach target and kd just armor debuff and coordinated strike.
If U still have hp repeat on next enemy if not just run away.
Moreover if i see i cant beat someone just immune run away while commanding pet to dismount or slow enemies.

So in solo and small scale completely broken. Highest burst, best mobility, very good survival in terms of dps Class, big dps and utilities behind pet when U can focus kiting/surviving.

On the other hand we have wb large scale play. I didnt do that very often but its so easy. Just spaming spin with dot proc on crits or if U have low crit spam procs with hunter dots. So without high knowledge of wb playing there was no problems to top kills in the zone so problably better players than me are much more deadly.

To sum up. In my opinion each suggestion to buff wl or pet is ridicolous.

How to balance? I dont know the numbers but generally:
Wl should be nerfed a bit
Slayer and meele sw adjusted to be option also.
Maybe BW as well.
(Big hope in DPS patch)

So ez class to play like wl shouldnt outperform other classes like BW, Slayer with high risk in dps because we see the resluts in the last months:

Lions everywhere while players running or spinning

Well, I can understand the order. I also have a small slayer (rr 57). I was actually planning to play aa haste/ riposte slayer, but the nerf to Id, aa Haste (if you want Id back to 5 sec) and Parry have completely destroyed the class solo for me. It still does extreme damage when carried, but playing it solo is a pain. The Choppa(rr80) is much more fluid solo. Wl(rr 56) I also have one that just feels so much better and easier. Marauder(Work in progress) has all the stance junk that just doesn't feel good, but the Pull all the more.....just to annoy people.


And was that here with the reg tanks? These are super special builds to kill everything that can't heal itself. Stating something like that as the only nemesis that can kill you is brave

leondre25 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 2:17 pm

Battlefield wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 2:08 pm

Bozzax wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:50 am Correct WL and MRD should be below choppa and slayer in RAW damage as well as sorc/bw

More armour, pulls, aoe util is why

It was the devs themselves that buffed wb builds of the two classes and created the situation where 50-60% of order mdps (rr60+) are WLs 24/7. As WLs are quite potent as a solo roam as well. Lets not talk about not killing regen tanks bc that is a red herring

Ps gadding another hdbuff on fort weapon on top off highest butst was another brilliant move that will make balancing the class near impossible.

Ds. Nerfing slays (warranted) and bw/sorc mechanics further amplified the imbalance

Damage potential of geared Choppa/Slayer is higher than WL/Mara.

Potential vs Average. theres a reason the slayer population has dropped so dramatically.

Then maybe give to Slayer/Choppa some additional defence ability? It could be, when Choppa/Slayer not guarded then they get 10% incoming damage reduction?