Return of Reckoning

Finally. Thanks for that.

Give options for really small groups to have SC even when Population is very low - starting from 1/1/1 or both sides without heal or both sides without tank - maybe even dps only. Just keep numbers and achetypes equal. Also when groups get filled during sc.

Stop Premades farming Pugs. Premades have so many options to play hard and "fair" SC vs premades but don't use it. So give Pugs finally more than 1 Discordant without being matched to regular SC. When i decide to play pug and have the option to join solo, that should result in an equal chance to win an SC.
Following this: Give Weekend-Warfront for Pug-SC or change the system to something less abusable.

Bolster/Debolster for Gear- and Renown-Gap also an option.

I support other suggestions like making visible which classes are needed or x-realm queue as we know it from ranked. That can also be considered for PvE but that's different discussion.
We can talk about "surrender" and penalties when we have fair fights and less 500:0 farm fests. But not before or in advance.

zumos2 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:44 pm

calipso wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:27 pm

Akalukz wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:02 pm

Agreed, should bring back guards and not barriers. Want to spawn camp, face the chance of getting pulled / punted into guards. The reason barriers were implemented appears to be to protect KDR for premades.

100% agreed. Barriers just promote afk. Get rid of them and bring back guards for a chance to keep fighting

The exact opposite is true. When players lose they can just run back into their warcamp and afk. With barrier you are forced to actually fight.

Imho you are forced, killed, and then ppl tend to afk, book out or surrender by the lack of possibility to fight back. In an scenario where 2 premades are matched, 1 on each side (as others mentioned BfP or many other scs), your K factor is Pugs. Match will be decided by that, i’ve seen such scenario back on live and here in RoR throughout many years, even if you are top tier premade, paired with bad pugs will ended up being totally one sided, no matter the realm or party composition. Even if there are premades or not, with removing barriers and bringing back guards you are giving them the opportunity to fight back, you will open a window to keep fights going on, not “forcing” them to be behind a barrier, waiting for surrender to be available. I think this change will promote more fights, but is a matter of perspective at the end of the day.

Phantasm wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:49 am The Guards fetish has got an other side of coin, there are kite groups that dont fight in a middle if they are facing equal premade, they kite back to guards and bait a mistake, then they press on opponent. Is it better then bariers we have right now? Only time will tell and how a topic will be aproach with balance team.

The goal of most scens is not killing shitloads of ppl. You got flags, carry stuff, control objectives. So if enemy is idle at flag just win the scen how it is suppose to be done by doing objectives.

So when premade got upper hand at the scen they could decide to go for the kills but risk being killed by guards or do the objectives and win the scen. Weaker team on other side could afk deep at spawn or try to fight near the safety net of guards and got somebrenown from guard kill.
When you have barriers you remove the option for the weaker side to fight, they just idle cos they are weaker and there is nothing to help them to fight the stronger side. How is that not obvious for the ppl, I cant get it

The goal of most scens IS killing shitloads of ppl. Very few maps play out differently

It is more effective to trigger a surrender then doing “flags, carry stuff, control objectives”

Barriers make this even more effective bc there is no recovery. The worst map is garden/arena where respawns are on multiple points further preventing a regroup (the hide and seek scs). Best times is when the stronger team ignore the mobs and chase solo respawners or when 2 premades on different sides both kill pugs

Bozzax wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:10 pm The goal of most scens IS killing shitloads of ppl. Very few maps play out differently

It is actually more effective to play surrender the n doing “flags, carry stuff, control objectives”

Barriers make this even more effective bc there is no recovery. The worst map is garden where respawns are on multiple points further preventing a regroup (the hide and seek sc).

Ok. So you get same scenario 2 times in a row or even more, just a regular weekend scenario non stop queued by strong premades doing their thing in order to complete rewards (i’ve been there i’ve done that and always thought it was unfair to the opposite faction) Even 2 premades stacking in same realm. Do you want me to keep doing scs in order to feed the other realm? Or you want for me to stop doing scs at all? Or give me the chance to turn the tables? Not much choices i got left there. We should promote to queue as another part of the game imho. If i want tons of kills I’d simply stop doing scs and go rvr, there is where i get lots of kills. Again is just a different point of view. I just hope next matchmaking is more fair in that regard, either if there is barrier and guards or not.

Here are my 2 cents.

1-According you have 3 tier scs, and according a scenario needs atleast 2x6 or more likely 2x12 players (meaning quite 50% of T1 total population) to be played :
- Limit the number of available scenarios to 2 choices per tier (+event sc when available) : solo discordant skirmish and grouped random scenario. (if point 2 (below) is something interesting, remove solo discordant skirmish too, cause it would no longer make sense)

2-According there are a lot of complains about premades vs pu, introduce the idea of "asymetrical" factions. I explain. We all agree that 12 non organised players vs 2 premades whatever the composition is, lead always to the same result : premades wins.
So i assume that having 2/2/2 PUG vs whateveryouwant Premade is not good. Which drives me to this suggestion :
Put a "weight" on every player (MMR ?) and matchmake a sc on the base of the "weight", as for tabletop warhammer > If side A represent 1000 points, then drop 1000 points on side B, even if it represent 1 or 3 more players. So we could have 1 premade + 3 PU players (9) vs 12 PU players, important thing being to preserve as much as possible the weight balance. (If you think that having non balanced pop sounds like a stupid idea, just look in openRvR )

Imho, i would be fair for PU, and chalenging for premades. Furthermore, this would remove and replace ranked sc in a better way for everyone.

Mixing 1+2, we could have better quality Scs, whatever the connected population or the tier.

There were my 2 cents.


Thank you.

PS : Ah oh and yes, remove/modify or impose sanctions when someone use the .surrender option and those who say "yes" : (small debuff to tag again ? 0 crest ?)

zumos2 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:05 pm

“We are also hoping to improve the scenario grouping if for any reason a premade is put against a pick up group. Although we want to mainly not mix pugs and premades.”

This is a really big worry. The game should promote players for making premades, not potentially punish them. If this system punishes you for forming a group by just not giving you scenario pops, that would be terrible.

In general I think that no scenario should pop without every group having at least 1 tank and 1 healer. If a full premade enters the scenario you could increase that restriction to always having a 2-2-2, so there is a good fighting chance. A random 2-2-2 with good players can still beat a bad full premade in a 12v12+ scenario.

Of course if there are an equal amount of premades on both sides they can be matched against each other. But if the system forces it, additional rewards would be fair. In general I think the rewards of scenarios vs RvR are imbalanced at the moment. Only feels worth doing scenarios during the weekend event.

I think this mentality is dangerous and extremely toxic to the long-term health of ror. You don't need to incentivise people into forming a 2/2/2 - simply increasing your odds of winning through organisation should be enough reason.

The whole "you should group up, it's a group game" mindset is how we've ended up in this seal clubbing no-pop low-pop mess; people will do what's most optimal and will not engage in subpar activities, like queing solo. This is how ror loses players.

Players are drawn to ror.for the PvP - sometimes just a quick couple of games after work - if they get clubbed consistently by premades, they are more likely to just play something else.

When they stop queing because of being seal clubbed then queues dry up, everyone suffers and no one plays. If there no reason or incentive for them to queue on the face of clubbong - why should they bother?

You often hear the counter of "they should just group up", but problem is two fold; first theres a higher burden of organisation required to form one, and not everyone has the time or desire, to group up when they may have only an hour to play.

Secondly, if people have queued and had a bad experience, they are just as likely to do something else than they are to group up, so the pool of available players diminishes. As easy as it is to blast them for being casual or soft - that's reality - their time is worth more to them and they can get their fulfillment elsewhere.

There are many other levers to pull to encourage people to group up - again, rewarding the intended ideal way to play is not good game design and lacks thought. You want to reward people on the way to the desired mentality - reward them for making the correct steps, incentivise the journey, not for jumping through hoops to get the correct solution. You don't get full marks for just the answer to a math question, a majority of marks comes from doing the working.

Advocating mixing pugs and premades over premades vs premades is peak seal clubber territory.

Imo any bonus rewards like crests should be for 1-1-1 or alert based "tanks are needed in queue, join now". Lower the burden it takes to become organised with good incentives and we will see better shifts in player behaviour.

Pushing people to 1/1/1 will also speed up match making as it's easier for the game to backfill a 6 if it can get half a group, instead of a full 6 and then waiting for an ideal mix in the pug queue.

Rewarding 2/2/2 further than their already inherent bonuses of being organised only further worsens the problems we have with sc and general game pop.

average forum posters will perform any amount of mental gymnastics required to avoid grouping up.
Surely satisfying their needs will improve the server
)

The entire point of objectives is to give the losing side a chance to fight back, the trouble is this has been nerfed so many times that killing is the only viable option.

So as soon as its obvious one side is trouncing the other theres no longer any point in fighting because when you lose you get absolutely F all.

Its terrible game design straight up.

Objectives should play more of a part and the losers should stop being punished constantly.

this goes for RVR aswell, right now the winner takes everything the losers get nothing, so as soon as its obvious your losing everyone just leaves and i dont blame them one iota. I have also noticed that healers are once again punished for healing people outside of group, no RP or crests for doing such things.

So healers are now discouraged to heal or rez anyone outside of group, how is this healthy for the game remotely? If anything healers should get BONUS rewards because they're doing a hard job that no one else wants too!

But everywhere i look on this game the rewards are exclusive rather than inclusive.

Its madness.

Dackjanielz wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 3:26 pm The entire point of objectives is to give the losing side a chance to fight back, the trouble is this has been nerfed so many times that killing is the only viable option.

So as soon as its obvious one side is trouncing the other theres no longer any point in fighting because when you lose you get absolutely F all.

Its terrible game design straight up.

Objectives should play more of a part and the losers should stop being punished constantly.

this goes for RVR aswell, right now the winner takes everything the losers get nothing, so as soon as its obvious your losing everyone just leaves and i dont blame them one iota. I have also noticed that healers are once again punished for healing people outside of group, no RP or crests for doing such things.

So healers are now discouraged to heal or rez anyone outside of group, how is this healthy for the game remotely? If anything healers should get BONUS rewards because they're doing a hard job that no one else wants too!

But everywhere i look on this game the rewards are exclusive rather than inclusive.

Its madness.

If i want to do PVE im going to do Gunbad