Return of Reckoning

The game is balanced. Roll whatever you want. If you choose to play a crap class instead of a sw or am... that is your preferance and you knew that going in

"game is balanced"

"just play these 2 OP classes on order"

simply epic

I think the difficulty is especially where classes benefit from each other with buffs and debuffs. It's easy to say mirror this or that, but all the other stuff that's different will also be applied to the thing you want mirrored.

When you open the door by starting to mirror one thing, then where do you stop? And just mirroring everything would be cheesy and would ruin the game.

Vraal wrote:

Tklees wrote:

Vraal wrote:

I don't see in how far the Sorc's rotation is more streamlined than BW's. As far as I see can see it the only real advantage the Sorc has over the BW in T4 is this tactic http://war.mmodb.com/abilities/infernal-gift-982.php and in a grander scale it balances with tactics that the KOTBS brings to the table. I would be interested in your thoughts on that tho.

ok so standard t4 bw rotations follow, im not going to use the full ability names just shorthand:

Ig, bb/ sb (preference on which to apply first), pyro, sear, WH, nova

Nova and sear are both Elemental damage and are no bebuffed with the IG tatic. While on the other hand sorcs rotation:

CW, VoT/ WoP (same as above), AB, GB, HoR, and ID only GB is not spirit damage so more of the rotation is debuffed than the BW

Okay, so what you mean with streamlined is the fact that BW's rota contains 1 more undebuffed skill. I see why this is indeed a bad thing but I thought you meant something more glaring. However you can argue that http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Funnel_Power and http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Playing_With_Fire kind of make up for that. Also BW has another insta dmg spell at his disposal in the form of Fireball Barrage. So you could go Ig, bb/ sb (preference on which to apply first), pyro, sear, WH, nova + Fireball Barrage (atleast for one tick). Sorc doesn't have that option.

problem with that is that by the time you use that insta the healer has reacted to the initial burst. Its normally dead after the second insta or reload the next rotation. Infernal Gift is also great for premades you are correct.

Coryphaus wrote: I don't think we should wait 2-3 years or however long it takes to reach t4 to discuss balance

Don't mean to sound like a party pooper, but will we be around during that time? I believe only way we can speed it up is to spread awareness that ROR is around. We can ask people to sign up to help out the devs. My biggest concerns is the playerbase in the future and will the devs be still around to maintain it? I do have high hope that ROR will bring WAR back to the former glory.

war is a team game. Looking at classes specifically and compare them with their mirror is not really productive.

as i see it: does order win more % of sc then destro? or vice versa? if its near 50%, balance is ok. simple.

Tiggo wrote:war is a team game. Looking at classes specifically and compare them with their mirror is not really productive.

as i see it: does order win more % of sc then destro? or vice versa? if its near 50%, balance is ok. simple.

This completely disregards variables like individual player skill, overall organization of the realm, etc... You don't balance a game around w/l statistics, that's just insane.

If you think magus is better then engi then you clearly have not played a engi end game (t4 rr100 or close) they are about the same
Mara is better then WL in nearly everyway coz of bugged pet for 1 along with a few other things
BO and SM are fine as tanks and dps
Dok is easyer to play then a dps WP but both are the same dok gets abit more parry and WP gets abit more dmg
Shamans can out run people yes and have more hots but order has kotbs to counter that and u really cant run away from a fight if some1 is training you, AM's get a 5% nerf to crit on people aswell as more crits.

The only ones that are not as good really are Mara/WL BW has KD and HD which sorcs need (one or both would be really nice). Then ofc you have Choppas and Slayers..................ID for the win over 70% of deaths on destro side were from ID

My god, the posts...

Joshwa70 wrote:The game is balanced. Roll whatever you want. If you choose to play a crap class instead of a sw or am... that is your preferance and you knew that going in

Jesus Christ. Aside from the absolute howler of a contradiction, let's deal with this first:

EXTERNAL balance: how a class performs relative to classes of the opposite realm
INTERNAL balance: how a class performs relative to classes of the same realm
EXTERNAL FACTION balance: how a faction as a whole performs relative to another faction.

Internal balance is the easiest to argue around, because you only have to look at the used 6v6 configurations to work out how poor internal balance is. External faction balance isn't the measure that we care about, because a) at a high level, people avoid using **** classes and b) the class distribution on each side, with respect to class power, is going to follow a fairly even distribution anyway, so ~50% is expected.

Tiggo wrote:war is a team game. Looking at classes specifically and compare them with their mirror is not really productive.

as i see it: does order win more % of sc then destro? or vice versa? if its near 50%, balance is ok. simple.

It is productive in the sense that when considered together, each mirror should have similar worth and potential on a team. Slayer/Choppa is therefore a valid comparison due to Inevitable Doom.

Raw win/loss tells you almost nothing, because balance is seldom done around the average players, and even if you select for high-level play, what will you find? Optimal compositions which ignore bad classes! One always balances for high level play first, even if that can lead to some issues in mid-level play (genuine L2P issues.)

The only way to deal with it is to consider what a class offers in relation to other classes, ideally of the same realm first, because those are the classes with which any given class competes. Anything else is an attempt to dodge having to tackle problems.

Azarael wrote:My god, the posts...

Joshwa70 wrote:The game is balanced. Roll whatever you want. If you choose to play a crap class instead of a sw or am... that is your preferance and you knew that going in

Jesus Christ. Aside from the absolute howler of a contradiction, let's deal with this first:

EXTERNAL balance: how a class performs relative to classes of the opposite realm
INTERNAL balance: how a class performs relative to classes of the same realm
EXTERNAL FACTION balance: how a faction as a whole (optimal composition) performs relative to another faction

Internal balance is the easiest to argue around, because you only have to look at the used 6v6 configurations to work out how poor internal balance is.

Tiggo wrote:war is a team game. Looking at classes specifically and compare them with their mirror is not really productive.

as i see it: does order win more % of sc then destro? or vice versa? if its near 50%, balance is ok. simple.

It is productive in the sense that when considered together, each mirror should have similar worth and potential on a team. Slayer/Choppa is therefore a valid comparison due to Inevitable Doom.

........................Sorry but if you choppas and slayers are a good mirror then you need to play both at top lvl/gear, I have played both at rr100 and from what i could see in ORVR with a 6man+ on my choppa i got alot less kills/DB's and did alot less work even tho i put alot more work into the class, choppas ID is a Aoe pull that gives people free imu's and does nothing really for dmg, slayers ID on the other hand did alot more dmg got alot more DB's/Kills and helped the group out more as it was Aoe dmg that u cant stop. The choppas one you could get cc'ed or they could just move abit away or....just kill you