Absolutely agree with 2 previous posters. Like I said - what is the point? None.
SMs are very appealing as 2h brawlers but once in a while you ask yourself - why am I trying to squeeze dps out of a tank while not doing my core job which dps classes cannot do?
CountTalabecland wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:06 pm
The question to ask with IBs is really whether the optimal Warband build really affords any of the extra tanky abilities?
Lets assume a 70+ IB w/o the extra 2 points from full Sov.
If you bring Ancestor's Fury, Oathbound, Runic Shield, Punishing Knock, Earthshatter, and Told Ya So, then you cannot afford GnM or Shield Mastery and you have 1 tactic slot open assuming that you consider Toughness tactic to be mandatory.
You could use that tactic for Armor (Mind that you have pots and self-buff), the other tanky one you could use is Seasoned veteran.
The problem is that quite a few of these are "selfish" choices meaning that Ancestor's Fury, Runic Shield, earthshatter, and PK are all meta because they actually benefit the group's offense/damage mitigation in achieving kills.
TLDR: You can build a very tank tank IB that will be the last thing to die for sure but at what cost? My issue is that Borc, Chosen/Knight, and BG all bring the tanky stuff in combination with benefits to the grp more easily than the tradeoff IB is forced to make.
Edit: Come to think of it, given IB's lack of block buffs, the nerf to parrying guard damage probably hit them the hardest since high parry was the easiest thing to stack so really IB is probably over represented in these answers.
Of course you will be squishier when you don't spec all the way up your tank tree and a knight does.
The problem is that 1) Knights don’t need vigilance to be tanky and (2) their specs are not as tightly budgeted on points as IB. An IB needs a precise build to get its city slot, Knight is so tanky generally that they are the go to tank.
A Knight w/on vigilance is still easier to build tanky than an IB in the same gear. Hence why knighy should win the poll.
CountTalabecland wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:06 pm
The question to ask with IBs is really whether the optimal Warband build really affords any of the extra tanky abilities?
Lets assume a 70+ IB w/o the extra 2 points from full Sov.
If you bring Ancestor's Fury, Oathbound, Runic Shield, Punishing Knock, Earthshatter, and Told Ya So, then you cannot afford GnM or Shield Mastery and you have 1 tactic slot open assuming that you consider Toughness tactic to be mandatory.
You could use that tactic for Armor (Mind that you have pots and self-buff), the other tanky one you could use is Seasoned veteran.
The problem is that quite a few of these are "selfish" choices meaning that Ancestor's Fury, Runic Shield, earthshatter, and PK are all meta because they actually benefit the group's offense/damage mitigation in achieving kills.
TLDR: You can build a very tank tank IB that will be the last thing to die for sure but at what cost? My issue is that Borc, Chosen/Knight, and BG all bring the tanky stuff in combination with benefits to the grp more easily than the tradeoff IB is forced to make.
Edit: Come to think of it, given IB's lack of block buffs, the nerf to parrying guard damage probably hit them the hardest since high parry was the easiest thing to stack so really IB is probably over represented in these answers.
Of course you will be squishier when you don't spec all the way up your tank tree and a knight does.
The problem is that 1) Knights don’t need vigilance to be tanky and (2) their specs are not as tightly budgeted on points as IB. An IB needs a precise build to get its city slot, Knight is so tanky generally that they are the go to tank.
A Knight w/on vigilance is still easier to build tanky than an IB in the same gear. Hence why knighy should win the poll.
A snb knight can do it's job better with vigilance, because they will die faster than an IB or SM when sitting in the blob trying to maximise it's aura debuffs, due to having slightly lower avoidance stats. IB and SM can easily have a higher base block state without having to hit a target to proc a buff to increase it. You basically need the snb IB to spec into the dps tree for the crit buff, if it's not needed by the group or you are in a pug premade, speccing into the tank tree gives far far superior guard damage avoidance tools than a knight could ever have.
Of course you will be squishier when you don't spec all the way up your tank tree and a knight does.
The problem is that 1) Knights don’t need vigilance to be tanky and (2) their specs are not as tightly budgeted on points as IB. An IB needs a precise build to get its city slot, Knight is so tanky generally that they are the go to tank.
A Knight w/on vigilance is still easier to build tanky than an IB in the same gear. Hence why knighy should win the poll.
A snb knight can do it's job better with vigilance, because they will die faster than an IB or SM when sitting in the blob trying to maximise it's aura debuffs, due to having slightly lower avoidance stats. IB and SM can easily have a higher base block state without having to hit a target to proc a buff to increase it. You basically need the snb IB to spec into the dps tree for the crit buff, if it's not needed by the group or you are in a pug premade, speccing into the tank tree gives far far superior guard damage avoidance tools than a knight could ever have.
Before guard changes I might have agreed with you but I guarantee that 90% plus of IBs are only bringing parry buff from the tank tree. What else are you referring to as being in the tank tree that is far superior to the Knight? Oathbound is the better skill but Shield Mastery usually isn't worth it. 9/10 times your grp/wb is going to demand that you bring Ancestor's Fury. So your IB and Knight are going to have the same base block and Knight has a core block buff.
However, with the way guard dmg works now that parry buff isn't as good as it used to be for both classes, and Knight can bring a 100% uptime 15% disrupt buff in Gilded Shield. Furthermore, Knight can bring Coordination and will only have 10 % less parry when buffs are up. Note that Knight can also bring 100 WS from Runefang to shorten that gap a little.
Additionally, now that more guard damage gets through as all sources, raw stats are more important than ever in surviving it. The Knight's auras really brings over a ton of bang for your buck. If only knight had the old Runefang too. As it is, Knight gets 100 more toughness from tactic but IB can bring more armor if AI is used (but since the rework most IB's are not bringing AI either due to Told ya So being a must bring).
Even if you dropped vigilance from this, this use of tactics will give you a better WB tank than an IB. The only thing this lacks against the standard IB build is 10% parry. But, you can bring Runefang for the extra WS and you can bring 15% disrupt Gilded Shield to stack with HTL. With Focused Mending and auras you have an altogether better tank for standing in the mosh pit and spamming htl and being a dmg sponge.
Knights do not die more easily than IB in any grp setting, there is a reason they are the go to tank, not IB.
Re: Defensive tanks
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:48 pm
by TreefAM
What is this build lmao, vigilance, runefang, no dirty tricks, no slice through, no kd, no ap aura
Is this one of those "it works for me bro" things NA players usually go with?
Re: Defensive tanks
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:50 pm
by CountTalabecland
TreefAM wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:48 pm
What is this build lmao, vigilance, runefang, no dirty tricks, no slice through, no kd, no ap aura
Is this one of those "it works for me bro" things NA players usually go with?
This is trying to bring everything possible to make you look better in this poll.
IDK if you read the poll title but it is "hardest to kill" with a bunch of ppl dog piling on you
Re: Defensive tanks
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:58 pm
by TreefAM
What are you talking about, have I posted in this thread before?
Are we going for meme builds here that are useless for any sort of play and just for funzies tankiness?
Re: Defensive tanks
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:51 pm
by emiliorv
The only thing i got clear about this poll is that order forum warriors need more fake accounts to flip pools.
Re: Defensive tanks
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 pm
by Charon
emiliorv wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:51 pm
The only thing i got clear about this poll is that order forum warriors need more fake accounts to flip pools.
Do you maybe work in infamous russian troll farm bc it seams you have big experience in shitposting
- the topic shows ppl perspective nothing less or more