Return of Reckoning

SH now OP?

200k damage in cityfight - omg? i can't believe this

Gurf wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:26 pm

Jabba wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:53 pm

Gurf wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:31 pm Just look at how many SH are in the ranked top list, there is like one or two Slayer total SH is probably the top ranked class overall in both sides.

You should just stop posting, every post you make is more ridiculous/uninformed/stupid/biased than the last. Not sure people can handle you making many more.

My posts are factual, you can look up the rankings yourself, or look up the SH abilities which I have mentioned, how exactly is that uninformed? Only one of us here is resulting to insults because they can't make informed valid points.

You think teefz being top of the leaderboards for ranked is proof that mSH is 'overtuned', when he barely played mSH in ranked, and mmr is an indicator of nothing to begin with.

You also made a post listing every single ability/utility a sh has in their trees as though that's proof of something, despite the fact that more than half of them aren't available to a mSH in a warband setting, which is what this whole thread is about.

You then also continue spouting the line that mSH damage is overturned by itself, which I find odd given that it has he lowest damage of any aoe warband class that sees regular play.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the content of pretty much all your other posts on this forum however.

“Usually...”
Lol.
/thread

catholicism198 wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:45 pm “Usually...”
Lol.
/thread

I just assumed you're pug player.

Jabba wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:31 pm

Gurf wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:26 pm

Jabba wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:53 pm

You should just stop posting, every post you make is more ridiculous/uninformed/stupid/biased than the last. Not sure people can handle you making many more.

My posts are factual, you can look up the rankings yourself, or look up the SH abilities which I have mentioned, how exactly is that uninformed? Only one of us here is resulting to insults because they can't make informed valid points.

You think teefz being top of the leaderboards for ranked is proof that mSH is 'overtuned', when he barely played mSH in ranked, and mmr is an indicator of nothing to begin with.

You also made a post listing every single ability/utility a sh has in their trees as though that's proof of something, despite the fact that more than half of them aren't available to a mSH in a warband setting, which is what this whole thread is about.

You then also continue spouting the line that mSH damage is overturned by itself, which I find odd given that it has he lowest damage of any aoe warband class that sees regular play.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the content of pretty much all your other posts on this forum however.

I was making the point about ranked overall , there are more SH on the leaderboard than any other dps class and only 1 Slayer total. Which is a fact.

And you are trying to tell me MSH doesn't have a ton of cc and utility ? Come on man get real , it has more than any other class outside of tanks while running in close to heavy armour. If you play a SH you know this is the truth so no idea why you are arguing against it.

It's a pretty much accepted fact on Order that MSH damage is overtuned considering its survivability and cc, it people have just accepted that's the way it is, and why they do so well in 6v6.

@jabba, personal jabbing is one of the reasons why threads get locked. Step back and take a breather.
People that "main" an fotm can rarely look at it objectively.
Furthermore, melee squigs do get access to all the squig's utility, Snare, stun, pounce, CD increase, flee, self-punt, pierce defenses.. , except the heal debuff. It's such a specialized mastery that you are not required to double dip into other masteries to access other skills.

M0rw47h wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:48 pm

catholicism198 wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:45 pm “Usually...”
Lol.
/thread

I just assumed you're pug player.

There are only a few Order premades doing cities, and they usually get paired against pugs...which requires no counter play. easy steamroll. even /5 pugs.

Gurf wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:12 pm

Jabba wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:31 pm

Gurf wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:26 pm

My posts are factual, you can look up the rankings yourself, or look up the SH abilities which I have mentioned, how exactly is that uninformed? Only one of us here is resulting to insults because they can't make informed valid points.

You think teefz being top of the leaderboards for ranked is proof that mSH is 'overtuned', when he barely played mSH in ranked, and mmr is an indicator of nothing to begin with.

You also made a post listing every single ability/utility a sh has in their trees as though that's proof of something, despite the fact that more than half of them aren't available to a mSH in a warband setting, which is what this whole thread is about.

You then also continue spouting the line that mSH damage is overturned by itself, which I find odd given that it has he lowest damage of any aoe warband class that sees regular play.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the content of pretty much all your other posts on this forum however.

I was making the point about ranked overall , there are more SH on the leaderboard than any other dps class and only 1 Slayer total. Which is a fact.

And you are trying to tell me MSH doesn't have a ton of cc and utility ? Come on man get real , it has more than any other class outside of tanks while running in close to heavy armour. If you play a SH you know this is the truth so no idea why you are arguing against it.

It's a pretty much accepted fact on Order that MSH damage is overtuned considering its survivability and cc, it people have just accepted that's the way it is, and why they do so well in 6v6.

While I agree that MSH has good CC and overrated `Survivability` mainly tied on double armor buff (armor penetratation and non physical attacks just make it meh. imo.) I don't agree on overtuned dmg part. I think you miss the point that MSH has a considerably lower dmg compared to other DD classes, especially when it comes to AOE, as a payment of having better CC tools and thus mobility. On the other hand, MSH lack crit rate and crit damage support on its melee phase which is provided to MDPS classes and even to ASW now. Moreover, despite the POYOS which provides some STR and WS with the cost of toughness, MSH lacks STR support from its tactics and stance buffs so usually you are forced to go glasscannon to have a good amount of str and weapon skill. SO MSH having a good AOE burst is just an illusion.

Gurf wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:12 pm
I was making the point about ranked overall , there are more SH on the leaderboard than any other dps class and only 1 Slayer total. Which is a fact.

This is relevant to the topic at hand, how?

And you are trying to tell me MSH doesn't have a ton of cc and utility ? Come on man get real , it has more than any other class outside of tanks while running in close to heavy armour. If you play a SH you know this is the truth so no idea why you are arguing against it.

Sure, they have some good utility for a dps class, but they do far less damage as a tradeoff.

It's a pretty much accepted fact on Order that MSH damage is overtuned considering its survivability and cc, it people have just accepted that's the way it is, and why they do so well in 6v6.

mSH was only really strong in 6v6 when the tactics stacked, and when dok had an aoe 100% uptime heal debuff, which meant the aoe fluff of mSH actually applied some pressure. Now, mSH is probably at the very bottom of the barrel for viability as a mdps in 6v6.

Uh oh here we go, more destro nerfs inc! Sucks i just leveled a SH also! Darn it, oh well better level up my magus since we evidentally "need more ranged" anyway.

Nishka, since you are posting a forum whine/troll without any kind of supporting arguments as to why Melee SH is "bonkers", allow me to set you straight.
-Just because "Some Melee SH" outperformed a few sorcs damage wise on a scoreboard, does not mean anything. Ok? now lets get to facts.
-Melee SH, you know the class that gets played over the Ranged Version because the ranged version sucks, is an AoE based jumping meatball that does medium AoE damage, and so so single target damage. Their biggest benefits to a Warband are the Indigestion (the counter part to slayers 5 sec cd increaser) and Really Bad Gas on top of Big Bouncing aoe "burst".
-Now, Melee SH's have been nerfed once, correctly, when they allowed the Territorial Aggresion to be stacked with All By Meself. After that nerf, the AoE damage became acceptable but by no means up to scratch against a good AoE sorc.
-The Melee Squigs damage is mostly Physical, and they dont have many means to stack insane weaponskill like Shadow Warriors etc, so while their AoE will hit lower armored targets hard, Warrior Priests, tanks etc will not be bothered by a lone Melee Squigs damage. As with any AoE damage class, the way to kill stuff is to stack multiple AoEs / Morales on one area, and the AoE squig does that well enough. The high numbers come from the fact that they do decent sustained damage and are quite tougher than sorcs, so a guarded Melee Squig could stay in fights a bit longer as well, and also get in fights quicker due to their Squig Leap.
-I have seen SW's outperform good melee squigs on AoE damage in numbers, again that does not say everything, but dont whine about it when their counterpart the SW does : Better ST damage in ASW, similar AoE damage but less utility as an AoE, and way WAY better in the RDPS spec. that is 3 points for SW and 1 point for SH. There are several order/destro mirrors that are the same "balance" situation as that.