ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

[ragafury]

Poisitve stuff:
this will be short, but they are great ideas.

T2/T3/T4 merging:
this was really good / smart to revive the game.
I remember some evenings in May / June / July where it was a timewaste to play this game since there was simply no one to fight in this game, or looking for enemies consumed the majority of time.

Finance War / Keep Claiming / Integration of Guilds into the Wareffort.
Mavellous. Great Idea.
Perhabs the payout needs some tweaking but I know your post is more to understand as a sneak peek.
Anyway, not that this will perhabs even add cohesion internally to the existing guilds and alliances, perhabs even to the realm.



Implemented Changes:

So I played the System now for aprox 8 hours+ with a force size of 1 up to 7 guild intern.
I will edit this post once I've done 2 WB sessions.
Since so many patches hit the server it's hard to keep track of everything. This is a resumee / feedback of the last 2 evenings EU prime.


Stallment:
If not one side has a heavy numbers or quality advantage the zone goes almost forever.

New BO design:
They've become even more pointless than before.
If you are outnumbered heavily they are just a afk hub. ("hi@" DW some minutes ago).

When I was solo in Talabec / Highpass I griefed the enemy (pugs) by idling tower.
Once someone spammed the famous pick up group battlecry "INC!", I moved my green solo ass to the highest point, waited there and retook the BO single handedly. I pulled that 2x times off until I got catched by the "fun"police. There are also some other lulzy hide and seek spots where you can pull that off on other BOs, but why share the cheese. (eg. for proof Tala @Feitens lock wall with entrance which leads to keep, DW drop dragon plateau, jump the pillar with the dragons nesting there, scout movement, drop once everybody gone).

Next thing: playing NPC is even less fun than killing the NPCs which usually were there to guard the BO.

Other thing: afking on a BO grants (shitty) renown.
I usually ended up with a tick of aprox 120 rr when I tapped and captured a BO.
Atm. it grants 8rr if you play the zone proactively, means not afking there.
that's 15 times less rr per BO. Why should I stand there when I can just proactively search an enemy, kill him and get even for a lowlevel char 35rr (4times the amount).

This design helps (at the moment) nobody I think.
I see the bigger picture in your dev diary, a major overhaul, but atm. everything feels a bit broken.
reading the stuff and hoping for a better time "once everything is perfect" doesn't really help right now.

Just to leave my opinion cause I doubt there will be a roll back, since you all sound pretty confident in that system:
At this point I liked the halfed locktimers best. They promoted proactive playing and added a bit of speed to the zones. Surely even that was arguable, and probably not everybodies darling, it's just my opinion.


*Placeholder*
when playing the next warband on sunday (because the patch hit inbetween our warband days) we will see how much we play the BO game as guild. I rather doubt it will play a even or bigger role as before (which was even before close to 0 if we have not the task to flip a zone back). Rather mass kill people and lock the zone by that fact and casually riding by, than standing with 24 ppl or 2x12 or 4x6 on a BO.
and to be realistic: the last two options are out of every reasonable argumentation because it weakens that playsstyle ofc.


Anti Zerg Mechanic aka. multiparing opening:
Dragon Wake just proofed that there is no zergsplitting or what so ever.
While DW was up, there was also Praag open (4 destro vs. 1 Order) and TM (12 Destro vs. 4 Order).
Praag got locked without any reward while DW was under attack.

The other warband days, which already had merged tiers played like giant deathballs with us leading the charge / getting followed without even wanting it. I remember that I read /2 which sounded like that: "guess we follow TUP for now*."
*now means in this case from 20:00h - 22:30h zone lock @ caledor.

I don't think that the majortiy does anything else. or that order pugs do anything else. it's atm just the nature of the game and you can't hate the players for it to use the most promising path.


Same rules apply as I've written somewhere else:
Smaller groups follow larger groups. (to get cover)
pug warbands follow guild warbands. (to "help securing kills" lul)
smallscale groups do a mix of everything / which is the most promising for there own grp. (atm. follow the zerg and man up or flank and killing loners is a much better reward than playing BO guardsman)

Since the game is atm purely incentive and carrot driven and the campaign has no meaning the zerg will just not split, since the best chances for rewards are were the crowd is.
In this certain example: DW = more players = more oppurunities to kill + guranteed ticks from lock (and keep) + toke progression by quests (even though you can't hand in right now) and lock.

Once DW keep got taken "losers" / destro afk'd out @ mm. zerg came mm. took it. wc zerging started. 8 minutes later zone was taken. well I guess at least short and without much struggle.

So shortresumee / possible solution for this:

make an incentive to play multiple zones.
since fortress / city is out of the race, there is something needed.
even when just the multipairing is open the zones are close to unplayable for some people (lag/crash).
besides that, it's not such big fun to have this "zergfest" as a permanent RvR.
It leads perhabs to cool scenes like "running in caledor" but it's a bit tiresome to play, no matter which force size.

Portals:
tbh. they are a bit of whatever.
options are nice, but even the riding time in DW is so short which that much players in the zone.
we used it one time to take a shortcut to get faster to keep and help funneling.
deployment for a 6 man is 36 seconds if nobody else is using it, and there were other people using it, so at that point you can consider almost to ride normally. right now I see it only working for solo / duo / triple stack. but as I said, they don't have much of an impact besides perhabs pugs waisting recources.
perhabs it gets more usefull once a real zerg split mechanic is in place.

Anyway, looking forward to the guild changes, they sound really prmosing, same as perhabs some general RvR changes as solid ranks, sieges, keeps and so on.

Short Edit at the end:
I know this all sounds a bit like "QQ". It isn't, it's just feedback.
I know that everybody on the dev team works there ass off and spends far more time in coding than me in playing.
so keep up the work! shout outs to Yaliskah, Natherul and Hargrim for the superior communication while pushing the limits!

[Yaliskah]

Thx for your feedback Ragafury, will take some time to read it conscientiously.

I understand completely that some part of the testing phase may be painfull. But we have to deploy and test to know what works, what not, find solutions and code it, but it takes time.... (Last time i checked, Barry Allen wasn't in the team .

@Ceithin. Je vais te répondre en français ça sera moins génant pour toi avec un peu de chance personne ne comprendra, vu que quand on en parle via PM, visiblement mes réponses ne sont pas claires tant et si bien qu'il faut que tu les poses sur le forum.

Si tester quelque chose ne rentre pas dans tes cases ou dans celles de tes petits camarades du moment sur un serveur qui revendique CLAIREMENT n'être qu'en alpha, si la qualité "médiocre" d'un retravail qui ne fait que débuter (et oui, bosser ça prend du temps, surprise!) te déplait tant que ça, si tester plus de 15 minutes quelquechose de different est aussi insupportable, alors oui, à plus sur un autre jeu, genre "mon nombril online". Tu devrais aimer. Ou pas.

Parce que là, j'ai lu ouin ouin/j'aime pas/m'en vais. Une réponse mature comme il se doit. Un excellent retour d'expérience dans les règles de l'art. Putain mec. 2 semaines de test (DE TEST!!!!) et la grosse diff c'est quoi? plus de joueurs dans le même endroit? Merde. Si on remet tout comme avant et que demain il y a 900 mecs en T4 a Praag tu vas me dire quoi? Ya trop de monde c'est nul tchao? C'est vrai que limiter en nombre une zone ouverte, c'est un concept en soi. On va y réflechir.

Ah moins que... a moins que ce ne soit le soucis des récompenses qui bien entendu n'est pas à l'ordre du jour. On peut régler ça. Je peux demander qu'on te cale niveau max avec le meilleur stuff, vu que c'est une fin en soi. T'en pense quoi?

Tu me connais très bien je crois, et je pense que tu comprends que ce genre de gentille réponse je le réserve à TRES peu de gens. T'es un élu mon gars. GG.

Ya ceux qui proposent, et ya ceux qui vomissent.

Et tien, je vais me coller un petit avertissement (mental vu que je ne peux pas le faire à cause de ce forum mal pensé par des générations de codeurs) pour ce petit post, je le merite, mais ca fait du bien.

[Buran]

Good changes. We really like it for today )

[KikkL]

You should consider BOs 'locking' just so the players can move off them, without them turning green.
The 'locked' BO remains capturable at anytime by opposing realm.
Only once ALL players leave BO its becomes 'locked'.
If opposing realm goes on a 'locked' bo and leaves it, then turns green.

If all players leave the BO and it becomes 'locked', then it regenerates supplies/heals doors, ect, at a greatly diminished rate.
Only non 'locked' BOs can be used as travel points, ect, ect.
This would force players to stay on it for benefits.

It just seems everyone is mindlessly hopping around all the BOs? Then everyone leaves the BO and your by yourself and get zerged? It is also very boring just sitting on a BO, sitting there..
This new system is a lot better, just needs tweaking?

[navis]

Sounds like the last days of ORvR for small groups, if you are not in the zerg you cant play.
Scs are the last option to have some good quality fight.
Thx for all your hardwork since the beginning of this project. Hope to see you on others game

I disagree. I think what we will see is groups will be much more concerned building warband/party of only higher rank and able to fit to the requirement of group building.
Some groups that are more organized already doing this and we've seen them winning against 4x numbers because of it.

I agree though, that there is too much zerging right now but there is tons of other stuff coming that hopefully will make the objectives more centric to fighting.
There is some big issues if players constantly chasing other realm into PvE area and avoiding Objectives, or other such digression.

[Yaliskah]

You should consider BOs 'locking' just so the players can move off them, without them turning green.
The 'locked' BO remains capturable at anytime by opposing realm.

It is an option we have in mind.

Only once ALL players leave BO its becomes 'locked'.
If opposing realm goes on a 'locked' bo and leaves it, then turns green.

It makes me think of a sort of complicated ballet. no offense.

If all players leave the BO and it becomes 'locked', then it regenerates supplies/heals doors, ect, at a greatly diminished rate.

There is something interesting here. Not about "locked" but about accelerate resource generation if none is around (if BO stay flagged when none around) . I see an issue. What if enemy Xrealm to "slow" resource production? (probalby stupid, it would mean he still produce against his realm on a BO he could take)

Only non 'locked' BOs can be used as travel points, ect, ect.
This would force players to stay on it for benefits.

It is logic in your suggestion.

[KikkL]

Only once ALL players leave BO its becomes 'locked'.
If opposing realm goes on a 'locked' bo and leaves it, then turns green.

It makes me think of a sort of complicated ballet. no offense.

Just so if you are facing a zerg. You can essentially go around unflagging their BOs(if they become 'locked').
Isnt it a complicated ballet right now?

If all players leave the BO and it becomes 'locked', then it regenerates supplies/heals doors, ect, at a greatly diminished rate.

There is something interesting here. Not about "locked" but about accelerate resource generation if none is around (if BO stay flagged when none around) . I see an issue. What if enemy Xrealm to "slow" resource production? (probalby stupid, it would mean he still produce against his realm on a BO he could take)

Lol. You think people will xrealm to unflag peoples BOs?
I hadnt even considered such a thing!

You should consider BOs 'locking' just so the players can move off them, without them turning green.
The 'locked' BO remains capturable at anytime by opposing realm.

It is an option we have in mind.

Yes. This would be really great I think.
Bcuz right now you kinda just get stuck holding a BO, away from the action

[Collateral]

Yes that would be quite similar to scs, if I understood correctly, and I am up for that. It means players that are new to the system will have a far easier time learning and adjusting. I personally have no idea why rvr and scs never had the same template, as far as bos go.

[Foomy44]

I'm having a ton of fun and think people will enjoy the new system more once more of these planned updates are released. 2 quick suggestions. The tick radius around a BO should be a lot larger, there's no room to hide or use the terrain to your advantage at most BOs and still get the tick and atm the defense can use all the help it can get since it's usually larger groups rolling around capping em. Also when people use the general RvR chat it should say what zone they are in after their name so when someone calls out "keep under attack" or something it's obvious where they are talking about. Thanks a bunch for all your work devs!!!

[PartizanRUS]

Spoiler:

All this doesn't matter until you turn on lockout timer for switching faction. Like in original game - 8 hours.

Teleport to BO is bullshit.
Finance War is bullshit.
Scrap this garbage.

I hope you will reduce that idiotic grind to get 1 set of t4 rvr armor.

A simple example to illustrate: A WH or a WE can't really roam alone in the lake. No space for it, no real purpose.

Nobody gives a damn. They have to deal with it.
Small or gank parties is good in rvr, whatever you think.

Keep your bullshit feedback to yourself. Nothing worth wasting our time on.