Return of Reckoning

zumos2 wrote:Warrior Priest
- The internal cooldown of Prayer of Righteousness is now 1 second.

Disciple of Khaine
- The internal cooldown of Covenant of Celerity and Covenant of Vitality is now 1 second.

Only thing I'm gonna say this is a lot more nerf to destro than to order and should be looked at. 1) because DoKs have two procs versus one of WP and 2) because DoKs have the +15% proc chance increase which is made a lot less valuable.

Prayer of devotion is a also a proc.
If you feel that it affects the DoK procs more than the WP procs, maybe there has been a huge imbalance before the patch?
No one forces any DoK to use that tactic if he thinks another one might be better. The tactic was part of the problem (as well as BW/sorc tactics btw).
Apparently these changes are about to bring the idiotic proc setups more in line with everything else, without destroying the general value of procs.

Well me As dps shammy with aoe shatter enchantment love it.

Luth wrote:

zumos2 wrote:Warrior Priest
Apparently these changes are about to bring the idiotic proc setups more in line with everything else, without destroying the general value of procs.

If that is idiotic set up, than how silly is that only one side has got range knockdown... on 2 different classes?

zumos2 wrote:Warrior Priest
- The internal cooldown of Prayer of Righteousness is now 1 second.

Disciple of Khaine
- The internal cooldown of Covenant of Celerity and Covenant of Vitality is now 1 second.

Only thing I'm gonna say this is a lot more nerf to destro than to order and should be looked at. 1) because DoKs have two procs versus one of WP and 2) because DoKs have the +15% proc chance increase which is made a lot less valuable.

I don't think so. Order proc groups can now be effectively countered because they are way more reliant on the BW procs. The same can't be said for destro. The only question is if the proc damage of destro groups is now to low to be competitive. Which I somehow doubt.

U make nerf without nerf, but make new imbalance.

Why "Flames of Rhuin and Frozen Touch" dont have internal cooldown? Its realy good idea for nerf.

1.Flames of Rhuin - is main proc meta component on order side.
2. Main destro tank - "Chosen" cant cleance enchantments.
3. How it will change the situation with the RDPS parties? Tanks cant cleanse it.

Its nerf without nerf.

Sorry for my english, i hope u understand me xD

Niky wrote:U make nerf without nerf, but make new imbalance.

Why "Flames of Rhuin and Frozen Touch" dont have internal cooldown? Its realy good idea for nerf.

There is no perfect balance so a new imbalance is everything we can hope for. At least if you want to change anything at all.

Niky wrote: 1.Flames of Rhuin - is main proc meta component on order side.
2. Main destro tank - "Chosen" cant cleance enchantments.
3. How it will change the situation with the RDPS parties? Tanks cant cleanse it.

Its nerf without nerf.

Sorry for my english, i hope u understand me xD

2. Chosen can't do everything? What's your point? BO, BG and DoK can cleanse enchantments....
3. RDPS don't profit from procs in the same manner as mdps. No auto attack tactics or no auto attack at all. They can profit with fast hitting channels like rapid fire. For which they a) need to stand still b) can be interrupted.

Lets be honest, only 1 character in a group can cleanse enchantments, and Shatter is still can be defended against, and it has 5 sec CD, and it will most always cleance the Flame Shield first, and as soon as you off.tank finaly get success with cleansing enemy mdps who almost always has a great amount of parry, FoR/FT will be immidiately rebuffed.

45 sec cd is not enough, both buffs need ICD, or shatter conf. needs to be undefitable, as it was on Live. Devs can also make CD like 3 mins, but this way every group fight will start their PvP with Shatter Rithual.

Anyway, the game is about PuGstomp, ant FT/FoR are the perfect instruments, since noone in PuG gets busy with shattering. 75% chance of an additional 200+ corp. damage on every attack, it deals more damage then aa for melee classes, anyone can log mdps, get buffed, join sc and then open Enemy addon combatlog stats.

I believe, Riposte, Shield of the Sun and some other stuff also needs ICD to be implemented on them.

Atropik wrote:shatter conf. needs to be undefitable, as it was on Live.

Stop stating this without proof. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8872&start=20#p94458 says it was not.

Cimba wrote:

Niky wrote: 1.Flames of Rhuin - is main proc meta component on order side.
2. Main destro tank - "Chosen" cant cleance enchantments.
3. How it will change the situation with the RDPS parties? Tanks cant cleanse it.

Its nerf without nerf.

Sorry for my english, i hope u understand me xD

2. Chosen can't do everything? What's your point? BO, BG and DoK can cleanse enchantments....

And the Marauder can remove on average 3 enchantments in 3 seconds (50% chance, six hits) with this tactic, ironically he procs additional damage on the target every time an enchantment is removed (must be a "destroy confidence" mirror).
Unfortunately, to try this, the common premade marauder would have to spec slightly different than he did for the last years...

Azarael wrote:

Atropik wrote:shatter conf. needs to be undefitable, as it was on Live.

Stop stating this without proof. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8872&start=20#p94458 says it was not.

Personaly i belive it proves nothing, since that 8th boss debuff could be cleansed with SC and SB both, 8th boss also placed dot on one random member of your group, and every of 3 healers in the game could cleansed it. I suppose that post is about ToVl scripts mostly, but not about game mechanics.

Furthermore, personaly i have no deal with it on my WE, since we have only 4 Blessings in the game that worth Sever Blessing GCD spend on them, they are:
- Repel Blasphemy,
- Vigilance,
- Runnies/zeals SelfRess and Wounds Buff.
And 2 of them (RB and Vigilance) are covered with IF or Runefang/Shield Rush/Shield of the Sun buffs 90% of the time, aside with their owners have from 50%+ to 100% parry/block being buffed, that offensive cleanse mechanism is ridiculous.

And it didnt work so on live, i spent weeks dueling with Kotbs/wh on my we/cho, but its your own server, of course, you can do whatever you like.

But im not whining about Vigilance or Repel, the main thing - im leveling my WE in t4 for almost a year now. Every time i see Vigilance im trying to cleanse it, and i can count on a one hand fingers how many times i got successed. To cleanse every mdps in enemy group through one additional buff being an off.tank in 45 secs, well you can have a try, and i wish you to have a luck, but im not sure 45sec cd may solve the problem.