Return of Reckoning

Balance rules - describe why its an issue, there is no issue plain and simple.

As for having it targetable does nobody remember when they were targetable along with lightning rod and you would tab target between them and not be able to tab target players ? seriously...

1: so you're saying in large scale, an organized wb can't focus down targets? Damn, I've been playing wrong this whole time. So has Phalanx, I guess. Never see their wb focusing people in large scale rvr...

2: I dunno, aoe snare them. Pull, then kd the Engis and focus them down. Use some actual tactics and organization, spam your assist macro, whatever.

3: so what you're saying is that engi keg isnt a big enough problem to warrant punting people away from it?

CegeePegee wrote:

GodlessCrom wrote:Counter to keg engies:

1: Focus the engies.

2: pull targets away from kegs with rift or terrible embrace.

3: punt targets away from kegs.

This is all assuming equal numbers/skill.

1.) need los to do this and in keep sieges a smart engineer will stay out of los

2.) how do you accomplish this if the targets are holed up in the lord room/3rd floor? is this something that can usually be done in this situation?

3.) not applicable in the already mentioned keep situation of stacking those kegs in the lord room...

1.) without los the smart engie can't do any damage. He is then doing the job of an healer with his keg that heal less like if he is a real healer.

2.) pull them out or storm lord room and use burst damage or st damage. Keg is AoE and can't safe a target that is focused.

3.) if engie is on 3rd floor he can only use keg on the lads there. Won't stop the enemy entering lord room or heal the tanks. If Engi is in lord room attack from both sides+inner chairs.
Range of keg is enough to help at one of the doors. Maximum on one door and inner chair. If destro comes from the other side keg is out of range.

Morf wrote:Balance rules - describe why its an issue, there is no issue plain and simple.

As for having it targetable does nobody remember when they were targetable along with lightning rod and you would tab target between them and not be able to tab target players ? seriously...

The "describe the issue" part is tricky. I could say "there is no issue" to several proposals and just outright decline them (i do believe there is no issue with kegs). However, it seems to be an issue for several players, so I decided to move this thread to discussions and let the community discuss about it. If there is indeed no issue with keg, it should not be hard to prove it.

We have 2 weeks.

GodlessCrom wrote:Had keg stacking in a lord room ever happened? And if so, has it ever proved the decisive factor in defending the keep?

This all feels somewhat like complaining about the sick aoe damage numbers a chosen can put out with his auras. Meaningless fluff numbers getting blown out of proportion.

And really, all this nonsense about kegs could also easily be applied to aoe healers in general: how do we take a lord room with a bunch of salv wps stacked on it, constantly casting group heals and always LOSing our dps and pulls? Must be impossible, man...

1-it happen all the time
2-totally different, chosen/kobs aura dmg get reduced by enemy mitigation and maybe even guard not sure. Also they cannot crit(for good reasons)
You can crit and you are immune to heal debuff
3-look ...in fact engi have a cast time increase, 6 sec stag, and every kobs can provide a heal debuff for 25% which is the base heal debuff for aoe which do not coutner your keg regen.

1: prove it. Show vids or screenshots of it happening.

2: I don't play an engi, so don't address the points to me :p I play ironbreaker, and im not in bitterstone.

3: yeah man, awesome stagger that has a small aoe and gives massive cc immunity to all hit by it. Truly a useful skill and not at alll an annoying noob-trap...

Tesq your fallacies, misinformation and misdirection makes my head hurt. From not addressing all of my points in your response post to mine, dragging KotBS crit buffing (a realm-wide thing btw) Engi damage into a discussion about a healing ability, baselessly claiming Keg healing ignores heal debuffs (seriously can someone go screenshot this I'm too poor for a double respec), bringing up extreme, non-viable situations (10 engis stacking their kegs at the frontline and not dying).

Tesq wrote: 1-cant, biger scale not small, no one gona focus you down due to range and **** lods of ppl in front line (again the problem is in bigger fight not small skirmish)

2-you will pull 9 target or they will pull your 9 ppl , in either case what force them to stay away and not move back onto keg again lol or what even force the engi to wait for the last moment to throw keg, this point is totally invalid, you can A) either pre pop the keg and re deploy it after 10 sec or either wait and do that after the pull decide.

3- and give free immunity because keg? you punt guard bot or you AOE def KB ppl not just to remove them for 5 sec from keg spot location. Where they can go back in very few times also granting them the chance to push you due to iimunities.

1. If an Engi is standing out of range of your RDPS his Keg won't be healing the frontline, or Order RDPS for that matter. It will only be healing him and not for that much either due to spec constraints as he would either need to sacrifice his Keg healing (not all points in Tink) or his ranged damage (not all points in Rifleman).

2. Pulling people out of Keg range immediatelly cuts off Keg healing. Not to mention it's accompanied by a knockdown+AoE slow on the people pulled when done well. That means they won't move fast or very far and likely stay out of Keg range for a while. Now if an Engi elects to move into the AoE stacked in the Rift location just to drop a Keg, well let's just say I don't think that's the smartest thing to do and best usage of his time. Not to mention that he'd have to be holding the Keg CD to deploy it when people get Rifted thus negating one of its strongpoints - the uptime.

3. That speaks volumes about how negligible Keg healing is. If it were an issue (say an BT group is sitting on a BO) then you'd definitely want to AoE KB to displace them and break up the entrenchment. As I've seen smart destro groups do...

Edit: I think I'm gonna stay away from this thread, feels like this is going to go in circles for a while.

Penril wrote:
The "describe the issue" part is tricky. I could say "there is no issue" to several proposals and just outright decline them (i do believe there is no issue with kegs). However, it seems to be an issue for several players, so I decided to move this thread to discussions and let the community discuss about it. If there is indeed no issue with keg, it should not be hard to prove it.

We have 2 weeks.

The players who do have an issue are the ones who dont have group support, this should be a big red flag to begin with, quite a few being sh players and as a sh player myself trying to kill an engi "alone" is not going to happen if the engi has half a brain, it is what it is, was the same situation on mythic servers.
I guess the problem some players have is not the keg itself but the combination of the keg, dodge/disrupt from flame turret, the amount of armor engi can have while also maintaining a decent damage potential, this being pug situations.
In proper group fights kegs are worthless, even in zerg situations they are pretty bad, only place they are decent is when holding a defensive position, and being decent in 1 situation isnt a good enough reason to call for a nerf.

1- you can just deploy the keg mid way or even deploy just behind the tank and move back
or deply and the whole front line move a bit back

2-immunity, most of time impossibility of pull due to los ( always around objective which is where the stack is the issue the most nor of course in plain open field which anyway in same number order dosen't fight if it have not a least a higer un number because order for reasons like keg fight better in close spaces due how much is eaiser due to skill interation bring more bw and stack buff/benefit from stats etc)

3-if ppl counter it for Aoe KB which mean all ppl immune to pull just after that than this is even more a reson to nerf it lol, smart ppl dont do it because they are smart they do it because it's broken then. If you need that much to KB ppl for something that is not good they are either stupid or ppl see this as op and KB ppl. Because give 30 sec immunity it's just better than that **** stack.

4-game revolve around take keep, in sc they are bad all agree , most of ppl are telling that are only good in static situation around objective where ppl stack the kegs and of course my main point it's that the stack should go. Just that, no range nerf no crit nerf just stop with the stack. Even for ppl telling that you only screw youself going for keg then the fix to the keg is not even a nerf so play test it wanna bet it will??? This remaind me of the old live thread about shatter limb/rampage nerf, they are broken nerfed it , no they are not , no one spec for it (lol) , then nerf it you lost nothing right? bla bla bla you're a deftard.

So no proof that this happens and it makes keeps significantly harder to take, then?

And again, how is keg broken and actual aoe heals not broken, since actual aoe healers heal for way more and also are immune to all the counterplay you say kegs are immune to.

I guess I'm just never on when these unkillable keg gods are out and about, ruining Tesqs day.