Patchnotes 15/12/16

[Azarael]

Add outgoing damage debuffs and absorbs to that list.

Anyway, this is splitting hairs. There is an issue and action has been taken to resolve that issue. That's the long and short of it.

[zabis]

Can you let us in on what the plan is for the future of the DoK, or is this a wait and see moment so people don't complain about the changes you plan to make?

[Azarael]

I'd rather not talk about it. The constant fighting on the forum just kills my motivation.

[dur3al]

Not to powerful? They had grp cleanse grp heals grp shield aoe detaunt high Amor and Wahl u have to do was klicking 5 Buttons... Hell

Not going into details here, but at least its better then spamming 1 button (on the .ab ex) healing for 1.6k every global cooldown without any counter-play? At least they can be interrupted and heal debuffed now which good players can exploit. Besides AoE cleanse change remains. But again, not defending the class, just saying that the melee healer version was much worse - due fact of not having client control to fully make the necessary changes.

Melee heal dok can be disarmed, kd, punted, punt the tank that is guarding them, detaunted.

All of the highlighted above can be said to every single class, including back line healing DoK/WP, so its not an argument. Please think logically. Besides once the CC goes in he gains several seconds of immunity.

Will you waste and risk using a detaunt to reduce the healing of a melee DoK/WP while he can simply change targets (to a tank or pet or anything he can come across with) ? If you do, I'm sorry but you're just bad player wasting such a vital skill for this purpose.

And if you disarm him, he'll still be able to use the other healing skills, and then he again gains immunity where he can't be countered again, so seriously? And again its also not an argument as same can be said when the back-liner is silenced which will prevent him from using his healing abilities, which in the ends is a much more effective counter for back-liners instead of melee healer.

I think this is the perfect example why we cannot balance this game for the masses...

Edited for Aza's comment:

Compare the amount of outgoing damage debuffs and the % of reduction they do with 50% healing debuffs in the game, and sometimes even 75%. Same logic apply to the absorbs and how available they are for this very purpose - keeping in mind that they will still be able to heal using the core healing abilities until absorbs run out...

Again I'm not trying to pick fights here, I'm glad of the decision done, with full client control it can go back into changing the playstyle and balancing for the melee heals. But examples like the above are the core reason why some players (myself included) are not in agreement with reasons and arguments behind some changes.

[Dabbart]

"I'm sorry but you're just bad player wasting such a vital skill for this purpose."

That definitely sounds like you're picking a fight. Not even going to argue the point. Since you seem to just call shenanigan's when counter points don't line up with the rational in your head. Every single debuff can be applied to every single character.

Sad to see a full roll-back, but I understand the issue. I was surprised the level of changes were input w/o that patcher. Actually, I had assumed by the changes being input that the Patcher was super duper close.

Thanks for not forcing us to sit with the epic melee heals until something can be done about it. Looking forward to Client Control, and the mass of potential changes it will allow.

[dur3al]

That definitely sounds like you're picking a fight. Not even going to argue the point. Since you seem to just call shenanigan's when counter points don't line up with the rational in your head. Every single debuff can be applied to every single character.

Sorry if I sound blunt, but its true. Melee doks will preferably look for targets such as:

- Pets, turrets and alike; no detaunt there.
- Tanks; since the skill is undefendable and tanks role requires them to be in the front lines - and they can't detaunt for the most part anyway.
- Melee dps; since their role also requires them to be in the front line - and for such a risk of playing front role (especially currently) they cannot afford to use detaunt for this very specific reason because:
a) The DoK will simple hit a tank instead (seeing that any effective mDps requires a guard). Making him waste his detaunt for absolutely nothing.
b) He just put himself even in a more risky situation having his life saver ability (when his tank is punted away) in cool-down for something that won't be even effective (even if the melee dok keeps hitting him while under detaunt). Parallel speaking of an example, its like saying you'll use Cannon Smash on a pet to negate damage from it... it will work yes, but seriously?

Sure if the melee dok is beating on another healer who is having no pressure, that healer can detaunt the melee dok to reduce his healings but this cannot be used as an argument that its a valid counter just because the melee dok has poor target selection.

[Sigimund]

A pity it came to this but hopefully it won't be for too long.

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

That definitely sounds like you're picking a fight. Not even going to argue the point. Since you seem to just call shenanigan's when counter points don't line up with the rational in your head. Every single debuff can be applied to every single character.

Sorry if I sound blunt, but its true. Melee doks will preferably look for targets such as:

- Pets, turrets and alike; no detaunt there.
- Tanks; since the skill is undefendable and tanks role requires them to be in the front lines - and they can't detaunt for the most part anyway.
- Melee dps; since their role also requires them to be in the front line - and for such a risk of playing front role (especially currently) they cannot afford to use detaunt for this very specific reason because:
a) The DoK will simple hit a tank instead (seeing that any effective mDps requires a guard). Making him waste his detaunt for absolutely nothing.
b) He just put himself even in a more risky situation having his life saver ability (when his tank is punted away) in cool-down for something that won't be even effective (even if the melee dok keeps hitting him while under detaunt). Parallel speaking of an example, its like saying you'll use Cannon Smash on a pet to negate damage from it... it will work yes, but seriously?

Sure if the melee dok is beating on another healer who is having no pressure, that healer can detaunt the melee dok to reduce his healings but this cannot be used as an argument that its a valid counter just because the melee dok has poor target selection.

Okey Dokey. None of that has to do with a person being a "bad player" for using Detaunt when necessary. There are many, many situations where yes. Detaunting that Wp/DoK is helpful. Theory craft all you want, but you're just looking for someone to argue the point with you.

[Tesq]

punt tank-->dok/wp detaunt 9 ppl/12, in sc basically all tank and DD in sc(WP can even range aoe detaunt).

disarm-->absorb,M2/M1, immunity from renown, all other st 0,5 cast heals

Ingore heal debuff--> 1 melee skill heal 1 target as if st over heal debuff when he's under focus and all as g-heal costantly. (a soft coutner is disarm and hard coutner is KB but both share same immunity).

ST channeling heal as 3-4 healer under heal debuff all togheter

bring 2 tank 1 melee 1 dok/wok 1 healer and you gain 1 free slot with what you want since he basically hit like a DD and heal like a backline healers. You jsut need to have 1 healer with an ap regen tactic for the group basically 1 zealot/runy which thay can kite fine by themself

The only coutner to dok/wp are rdps kite group

[normanis]

so now again backline healer will stuck armor talismans and half warband only can kill backline healer . i liked idea that armor byff regen essence and u can use dualwield
its out of thread byt why ather clases have so long aoe heal? 2 seconds while wp/dok have 1second ( they all are now backline healers) in front i understand why wp/dok need spam so much aoe and fast byt for backline?