Return of Reckoning

zumos2 wrote:

Telen wrote:

Spoiler:

Azarael wrote:The AM discussion will stop. This topic has nothing to do with them.

Let me refocus it. The topic is now about whether Get'n Smarter should be reintroduced, replacing Yer A Weaklin', to give Shaman the missing third DoT more than anything else. Any objections should be delivered based on analysis of the internal balance of Shaman and the inter-healer balance of Destruction, NOT on anything to do with AM, and they should be delivered from the base of the experimental mode for Shaman, not AoR Shaman.

Shaman have a 3rd dot that has the highest potential damage in morale 1.

It's a fun skill but against good players highly ineffective and with a 60s cooldown. Therefor it can hardly be called a third DoT.

Due to a lack of flash heals, you're kind of forced to run the other M1, too. And like you said, to anyone who knows what they're doing, that DoT is virtually useless. It is a fun skill, but a pub punisher, really.

So no, I would really prefer a DoT in a mastery tree (I don't think it's necessary to put this in core). As I mentioned before, I would suggest moving Scuse Me into Core and put Get'n Smarter in its place, removing either Yer' a Weaklin' or You'z Squishy.

Thayli wrote: So no, I would really prefer a DoT in a mastery tree (I don't think it's necessary to put this in core). As I mentioned before, I would suggest moving Scuse Me into Core and put Get'n Smarter in its place, removing either Yer'a Weaklin' or You'z Squishy.

Put scuse me into core for youz squishy and you wont get it til 40. Seems abit late for main res debuff.

Solution 1 is only option I think and replace Yer a Weakin with it

hmm, interesting. I actually thought you meant replacing one of the mastery abilities in "Path of Da Green-" but removing Yer' a Weaklin' doesn't seem like a bad choice as the two abilities would end up overlapping.

Overall there doesn't seem to be much opposition- aside from an AM- for re-introducing this ability and removing the other- So hopefully you end up giving it a try.

Daknallbomb wrote:Hmm i See getn smarter AT 9 points Green tree. U need getn smarter for be better dps and the 5 sec silence is nice for Utility But bad As an pure dps plaing shammy. I like solution 1 . As dps shammy u rly have The Problem to get enough int. I am AT 900 int with pot and 72 from rr ability.

My Shaman's intelligence is at about 870 and I still get disrupted more often then not. ...I've even been disrupted by an Engineer's turret- how pathetic is that?

Telen wrote: Shaman have a 3rd dot that has the highest potential damage in morale 1.

U trollin' right?

Telen wrote: Shaman have a 3rd dot that has the highest potential damage in morale 1.

It's also potentially one of the easiest countered morales in the game.

catholicism198 wrote:U trollin' right?

The unique morale ones usually show you something about how the class was intended. Shaman have a morale one unique dot where other healers have defensives drains or debuffs. Shaman werent meant to be a major dot class. They are a hot/burst damage kiting class. They get unique a morale that supplements what they lack once every 60s like the other unique morales do.

Telen wrote:

catholicism198 wrote:U trollin' right?

The unique morale ones usually show you something about how the class was intended. Shaman have a morale one unique dot where other healers have defensives drains or debuffs. Shaman werent meant to be a major dot class. They are a hot/burst damage kiting class. They get unique a morale that supplements what they lack once every 60s like the other unique morales do.

I do not understand why you insist on bringing other careers into this especially when you are very- very- wrong.

Have you forgotten about Rune of Insanity?

Now for a brief history lesson and story:

Way back when our lovely little Shaman first began his brave adventure, he started with three little DoTs, commonly know as, Life Leaka, Bleed Fer' Me and Yer a Weaklin'. Our, often mischievous, little Shaman would go around jumping from enemy to enemy debuffing and DoTing them to his heart's content. ...but the Shaman has one major shortcoming... he was by far one of the squishiest being in existence. His frail little body could not handle many hits and he would die almost instantly when caught by members of the big bad Order faction. The poor little Shaman was fully aware of this major short coming so he used all of his cunning and stolen intellect to devise an escape plan; He quickly realized that if he unleashed the might Waaagh! in one massive burst that both he and his enemies would be blasted away giving him a chance to escape; This action often resulted in him letting out a powerful shriek- Eeek! ...Unfortunately for our poor little Shaman, unleashing the mighty Waaagh! didn't always work in his favor...No, sometimes it would backfire and send him flying into the clutches of the big bad Order. What was our poor little Shaman to do? If this were to happen he'd often attempt to scurry off as quickly as possible, but unfortunately for our poor little Shaman he could only muster enough energy to flee from the big bad Order 25% of the time- this would often lead to in his demise. His death would then send his Orc comrades into a blinding rage causing them to rush into battle shouting "He waz my dinner!" "Waaagh!!!"

End.

-Shaman had 3 DoTs at launch; Life Leaka, Bleed Fer' Me, and Yer a Weaklin'
-Eventually the Devs gave Get'n Smarter a DoT, bringing it up to par with its mirror
-When the career was butchered they removed the DoT from Yer a Weaklin' in order to turn it into a univeral ae offensive stat debuff and scrapped Get'n Smarter as a result because of the obvious overlap
-They never got around to, or bothered to, fix the void that nerfing- I mean revamping the career left; hence the request to bring back this ability and make the Shaman a viable support/dps career

Telen wrote:The unique morale ones usually show you something about how the class was intended. Shaman have a morale one unique dot where other healers have defensives drains or debuffs. Shaman werent meant to be a major dot class. They are a hot/burst damage kiting class. They get unique a morale that supplements what they lack once every 60s like the other unique morales do.

I'm not interested in what they were intended to be - I'm interested in what will help them as they are now. With the experimental mode, both classes satisfy my playstyle intent just fine. Any design considerations smaller than that are of no interest.

catholicism198 wrote: Have you forgotten about Rune of Insanity?

Its an AP drain. RP having access to group AP regen and having no access to a drain. Again the unique m1 being there to supplement not be available at all times. Which is why having a dot as a unique m1 shows the class shouldnt have more dots.

catholicism198 wrote: -Shaman had 3 DoTs at launch; Life Leaka, Bleed Fer' Me, and Yer a Weaklin'
-Eventually the Devs gave Get'n Smarter a DoT, bringing it up to par with its mirror
-When the career was butchered they removed the DoT from Yer a Weaklin' in order to turn it into a univeral ae offensive stat debuff and scrapped Get'n Smarter as a result because of the obvious overlap
-They never got around to, or bothered to, fix the void that nerfing- I mean revamping the career left; hence the request to bring back this ability and make the Shaman a viable support/dps career

This is a soloing issue. With the shaman already providing the best toughness debuff and a 100% uptime aoe ele debuff along with the buff to magus which is unable to debuff its main burst and aoe which is ele. Shaman already provided big damage increases from all sources and particularly from the new magus. Ele debuffs are alot more meaningful in ror than they were in aor with its maybe 3 magi per server. The increase in damage I get if theres a dps shaman around is considerable on my magus particularly from IB. Balance really needs to start being looked at as a whole instead of class by class or from a soloing stand point.

Id rather see the aoe debuffing from these careers in general reworked to make them more effective as a damage reduction class in rvr than going further into making classes more selfish.

The Magus brings a ST Elemental Debuff that is very reliable as of recent fixes to the demons.