[Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

[roadkillrobin]

Ok so I did some math with having ID up 20 sec every minute vs having excelled crit rate of 30% with 100% uptime. Wich are both best case scenarios. I used 1.70 crit dmg as it's good middle gound between 1.40 and 2.60.

Spoiler:

I calclulated this by doing 2 hits for 100 every second for 60 seconds.
30% crit is effectivly 21% dmg increase.

Base dmg without any modifers: 100dmg x 120 hits = 12000 dmg
Base dmg with crit modifier: 121dmg x 120 hits = 14400 dmg
Crit Dmg vs ID: 121dmg x 80hits = 9680 dmg + 30,25dmg x 40 hits = 1210 (total 10890)

So for this example destro will do roughly the dmg without any modifiers
While order will have the crit modfiers 100% up. As you see here the difference is quit big at 2400 dmg or 21% from the crit tactics. When we add the 20 seconds of ID on the Destruction Defences the order dmg shrinks to almoast 10890 wich is pretty close to the 12000 dmg deals.

As you see with these caclultaion is that having acess to ID on "cooldown" and having 30% static excelerated crit rate pretty rewards the simular ressault. And that havn't even counted for the healing that the crit tactics do. When you take that into consideration i'm pretty sure the difference is pretty close to to none. And the fact that Destruction doesn't have acess to ID at thee start of the fight and starts as the underdog should ballance these things out.

And all of those calculations show that is it similar result and are done based on 1.7 crit dmg, what is showing lower crit damage than it should be as it is definitely not a middle ground between 1.4 and 2.6

Well only one class can get over 2 and the other ones is at 1.4 - 2

[bloodi]

And from where did you get that 30% better crit rate if i may ask?

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

-I totally disagree with that. Here's the reason:

When you fighting on open field, most of the fights ends in 30-40 seconds. That means everyone relying on "early morales" which destro lacks.

Your post shows exactly why this should be nerfed, first you nitpick a situation where "order wins" because they have all those m2 at the 30-40 seconds mark, which is fairly impossible considering that currently no order tanks have a morale pump and with one you will reach m4 before the ones without it will reach m2.

it's plenty possible since our moral 4 dosen't kill order and make no damages at all, when order push, they do it with both all moral 2/3 full loaded and all damages are istant + their passive bonuses, if this was not enough you are wrong they have a moral boost tactic which is is the AM one and sicne destru have no passive bonuses and no morales 2 for the first 20/30 sec of the fight am can just boost the **** he wants because the wp or the runy is going g-aoe spamming critting every **** heal+ GUESS WHAT crit tactic make am moral tactic better fuuuuu!!


Then your output of damage is based on order having 13 (8 tanks 4 bw 1 sw) people using their morale and destru somehow are only able to field 10 (8 tanks 2 marauder), that alone is a show that you are not really willing to paint a equal view here when just adding 3 marauder would make the damages equal at 8400 but i guess that didnt help your point at all.

marauder have NOT a moral boorst tactic like BW does

But lets leave that aside for a second and think about what you are stating with the "early morale dump" situation, you are justifying Destruction having an advantage, a clear one being able to pop m4 on cd, because order has a window where they can dump m2 on you.

Order has a window to kill you in a specific time frame so that makes you having the upper hand after that completely fine.

no order is unkillable because they have a 10% crit chance which is exatly 30 free renown point which make all their healer crit g-heals which is 50% more heal for everyone, they do not have a windown to kill they cannot be killed; WE HAVE a windown to kill em because moral 4 or moral 2. IF we do not use these windown to kill em we are **** because order moral bomb is all istantly and have no counter play.

faction with active skill have a window and it's in disadvanate not the one with passsive bonuses. Cicle FOR NO REASON m4 = make order exploit your moment of no moral even more. M4 is not cicled it get used defensivly.

restating a debunked point - "M4 does not kill" is not a valid argument. Also, refrain from posting in those colors again - Penril

[roadkillrobin]

And from where did you get that 30% better crit rate if i may ask?

SW + Kotbs + Kotbs is 35
SW + Kotbs + IB is also 35
Kotbs + SW is 25
Kotbs + Kotbs 20
kotbs + ib is 20

[bloodi]

it's plenty possible since our moral 4 dosen't kill roder and make no damages at all, when order push, they do it with both all moral 2/3 full loaded and all damages are istant + their passive bonuses, as this was not enough you are wrong they have a moral boost tactic which is is the AM one and sicne destru have no passive bonuses and no morales 2 for the first 20/30 sec of the fight am can just boost the **** he wants because the wp or the runy is gog g-aoe spamming critting every **** heal

marauder have NOT a moral boorst tactic liek BW does

no order is unkillable because they have a 10% crit chance which is exatly 30 free renown point which make all their healer crit g-heals which is 50% more heal for everyone, they do tno have a windown to kill they cannot be killed; WE HAVE a windown to kill em because moral 4 or moral 2. IF we do not use these wondowsn to kill em we are **** because order moral bomb is all istantly and have no counter play.

First, i am tired of the argument "ID doesnt kill" as long as it keeps you alive through punts, morale dumps and all that, is a great tool, dont even try to argue that the only way things are good is when they do damage. Is also something order is not able to do.

Second,neither do the tanks of order yet those 8 tanks are counted in the situation, if mrauders dont count, neither do the tanks or order, you cant have it both ways.

Third, sorry Tesq, 10% crit on heals is not something that makes order unkillable and no, we dont have instant morale dumps.

[bloodi]

And from where did you get that 30% better crit rate if i may ask?

SW + Kotbs + Kotbs is 35
SW + Kotbs + IB is also 35
Kotbs + SW is 25
Kotbs + Kotbs 20
kotbs + ib is 20

Leading shots and dirty tricks dont stack, so there is not 35%
Ib crit will not stack with any other crit and as said above, neither does dirty tricks stakc with leading shots.
So 2h kobts + Sw, that is far from meta but its true.
I give you that, yet it requires a 2h kobts, which is awful.
It, doesnt, stack.

So that 30% doesnt exist at all.

[Penril]

Leading shots and dirty tricks dont stack, so there is not 35%
Ib crit will not stack with any other crit and as said above, neither does dirty tricks stakc with leading shots.
So 2h kobts + Sw, that is far from meta but its true.
I give you that, yet it requires a 2h kobts, which is awful.
It, doesnt, stack.

So that 30% doesnt exist at all.

Have you tested this recently in RoR? Tactics stack, so DT should stack with LS. AF comes from a skill, so it should stack with those tactics as well. I haven't tested this in a while though, and can't check atm.

[Azarael]

Dirty Tricks and Leading Shots are both in the Tactic stack group, and so will stack with one another and with Ancestor's Fury. As all are general crit, they also improve critical heal chance.

[roadkillrobin]

And from where did you get that 30% better crit rate if i may ask?

SW + Kotbs + Kotbs is 35
SW + Kotbs + IB is also 35
Kotbs + SW is 25
Kotbs + Kotbs 20
kotbs + ib is 20

Leading shots and dirty tricks dont stack, so there is not 35%
Ib crit will not stack with any other crit and as said above, neither does dirty tricks stakc with leading shots.
So 2h kobts + Sw, that is far from meta but its true.
I give you that, yet it requires a 2h kobts, which is awful.
It, doesnt, stack.

So that 30% doesnt exist at all.

They do stack.
This SS is from 20min ago

Spoiler:

Base Crit


Just dirty Tricks


Both LS and DT

[Gnarlimus]

Spoiler:

Descent/structure here

shitpost indeed, the order dont even know their own tactics, as aza has just stated

Balance thread. Read the rules. Post appropriately.

- wargrimnir