Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice
Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:14 pm
I get what you're saying. It would be cool if the proc nerfs for CoC/CoV didn't affect the DPS DOK himself; it is what made him viable, as you said.
Yeah especially later on from what I can tell man. I've watched nearly every single melee healer/DD DoK video from live and they have insane AA speed and the AA's actually do a decent amount of damage compared to what they do now. It just didn't make sense to not just nerf but remove such a core mechanic of the class. If it isn't possible then I get that they had to nuke it all. But if it is possible to remove the ICD from the DoK and leave it on for others, then I am really really realllllly curious why it wasn't done instead.peterthepan3 wrote:I get what you're saying. It would be cool if the proc nerfs for CoC/CoV didn't affect the DPS DOK himself; it is what made him viable, as you said.
freshour wrote: [snip]
- Either they did not realize it was that key to their damage, or they just wanted an already super gimped class in comparison to live because apparently everyone hated DD DoK's on live lol. I don't know which it was but removing the ICD for a DoK breaks nothing if they can leave it on the rest of the party. That was my only point and I haven't been answered yet, hopefully soon though.
[snip]
You shouldn't jump to conclusions and accuse people of bad intent or ineptitude*, it'll just shorten your life expectancy (blood pressure and such) and overall capabilities to enjoy the game.th3gatekeeper wrote: [snip]
DOK IDC on proc - eviscerated the damage
Crip Strikes no longer procs off AoE - completely gutted 2H Chosen - the OPPOSITE of the EA nerf.
NO "give and take"... Just boom. You Done. So now there is NO reason to have a 2H Chosen, every Chosen should roll SnB. Crip Strikes (a HUGE cornerstone tactic for Chosen) is nerfed...
[snip]
Abbd.: *Devs are humans, devs read the forums, devs acknowledge how changes generally have a potential to rile up people. Devs do not have fun in creating misery or dealing with backlash.Darosh wrote: [snip]
To work out proper changes the devs probably need client control/more resources - reworking of the entire stacking-hierachy/stats, substitutes for skills/tactics/etc and the introduction of new mechanics to alleviate the impact of those you cannot take care of otherwise is a pretty difficault task if you have to work with the <remains> of a game, in your free time and, at times, without the expertise required to tackle specific problems.
I highly doubt they would roll out blanket changes like that if they could avoid it; I am pretty sure they have thought about exceptions and alternative solutions.
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I agree, not sure why I am listed in there. I dont think Ive ever said there is ill intent in choices... Merely the result of the choice is rather 1 sided and I wonder if they realize this...Darosh wrote:freshour wrote: [snip]
- Either they did not realize it was that key to their damage, or they just wanted an already super gimped class in comparison to live because apparently everyone hated DD DoK's on live lol. I don't know which it was but removing the ICD for a DoK breaks nothing if they can leave it on the rest of the party. That was my only point and I haven't been answered yet, hopefully soon though.
[snip]th3gatekeeper wrote: [snip]
DOK IDC on proc - eviscerated the damage
Crip Strikes no longer procs off AoE - completely gutted 2H Chosen - the OPPOSITE of the EA nerf.
NO "give and take"... Just boom. You Done. So now there is NO reason to have a 2H Chosen, every Chosen should roll SnB. Crip Strikes (a HUGE cornerstone tactic for Chosen) is nerfed...
[snip]You shouldn't jump to conclusions and accuse people of bad intent or ineptitude, it'll just shorten you your life expectancy and overall capabilities to enjoy the game.Darosh wrote: [snip]
To work out proper changes the devs probably need client control/more resources - reworking of the entire stacking-hierachy/stats, substitutes for skills/tactics/etc and the introduction of new mechanics to alleviate the impact of those you cannot take care of otherwise is a pretty difficault task if you have to work with the <remains> of a game, in your free time and, at times, without the expertise required to tackle specific problems.
I highly doubt they would roll out blanket changes like that if they could avoid it; I am pretty sure they have thought about exceptions and alternative solutions.
[snip]
See the abbendum, and pay attention to the last qoute - its from one of my rants earlier in the thread.th3gatekeeper wrote:Spoiler:
At a minimum, if they keep the ICD, then look at OTHER ways to improve melee DOK. As I said above, it basically eviscerated the melee DOKs damage... The procs made up a good chunk of damage (as you know)... Kinda like Chosen Crip Strikes... If something is nerfed, maybe provide something else to balance it out... rather than directly nerf something that wasnt OP.freshour wrote:Yeah especially later on from what I can tell man. I've watched nearly every single melee healer/DD DoK video from live and they have insane AA speed and the AA's actually do a decent amount of damage compared to what they do now. It just didn't make sense to not just nerf but remove such a core mechanic of the class. If it isn't possible then I get that they had to nuke it all. But if it is possible to remove the ICD from the DoK and leave it on for others, then I am really really realllllly curious why it wasn't done instead.peterthepan3 wrote:I get what you're saying. It would be cool if the proc nerfs for CoC/CoV didn't affect the DPS DOK himself; it is what made him viable, as you said.
You are aware that those videos featured DoKs/WPs in sov/df/wf+lotd items, yeah?freshour wrote:Yeah especially later on from what I can tell man. I've watched nearly every single melee healer/DD DoK video from live and they have insane AA speed and the AA's actually do a decent amount of damage compared to what they do now. It just didn't make sense to not just nerf but remove such a core mechanic of the class. If it isn't possible then I get that they had to nuke it all. But if it is possible to remove the ICD from the DoK and leave it on for others, then I am really really realllllly curious why it wasn't done instead.peterthepan3 wrote:I get what you're saying. It would be cool if the proc nerfs for CoC/CoV didn't affect the DPS DOK himself; it is what made him viable, as you said.
I've worked sometime in IT before opting to study again and bugger off - I wouldn't dare judging, especially if something as complex as a multiplayer is concerned. Moreso, if the source code isn't available to you and, last but not least, if the source code in question is meant to ducttape together the <remains> of a game that were reverse engineered by decoding packages.freshour wrote:Well the way I see it, you can proc 1 cov on one guy every 1 second. So it meant if 5 people hit an enemy he can only take damage from 1 proc. So that would mean the ICD of the cov to proc is on the guy being hit saying he can only be hit by it once every second which seems a bit more complicated than just leaving the doks cov as it was, and then applying that ICD that the defender had excluding the dok. I mean I'm not a master of code but assigning variables and such was pretty easy in the VERY limited coding I did. All I'm saying is that the work required to make 1 person only take 1 cov from any number of enemies hitting him granted they are given that cov by the same dok - seems fairly hairy to code and that if that much control is in fact possible that bypassing the gcd with the doks personal CoV/Coc would be relatively straight forward.
I've acknowledged that predicament - in fact, read back through my posts, I've been the one feeding you the idea of seperate sets of ICDs. If I had known that I'd stir up this circular argument... I wouldn't have done it - no offense intended.freshour wrote:Edit Edit: "If they could have done it they would have" - you are REALLY giving them a lot of credit lol. I'm not saying it was malicious by any means. I am saying they most likely did not realize how much of the DoK's personal damage was from those and the ICD just seemed like a straight forward fix and they never took into consideration the huge hit to total % damage that they gave the DoK. I find that WAY more likely than it is not possible.