[Guard Rework] A suggestion to better balance RvR and SCs.

[Jaycub]

Changing how guard works on RDPS is a good idea, it's one of the problems the have, but not the biggest one.

Problem with RDPS or any class that relies on casted abilities is their damage potential relies on being able to cast those abilities without being interrupted, and melee trains know if they just sit on a RDPS in a 2-2-2 group they won't have enough DPS to be a threat. Which is why you only see RDPS in 3-2-1 groups. Having a longer range for guard on RDPS would help facilitate those groups because it would be some pressure off the solo tank since hes gonna get super punted pretty much on CD and perma snared so getting in guard range can be difficult esp on RDPS kiting around.

[th3gatekeeper]

Changing how guard works on RDPS is a good idea, it's one of the problems the have, but not the biggest one.

Problem with RDPS or any class that relies on casted abilities is their damage potential relies on being able to cast those abilities without being interrupted, and melee trains know if they just sit on a RDPS in a 2-2-2 group they won't have enough DPS to be a threat. Which is why you only see RDPS in 3-2-1 groups. Having a longer range for guard on RDPS would help facilitate those groups because it would be some pressure off the solo tank since hes gonna get super punted pretty much on CD and perma snared so getting in guard range can be difficult esp on RDPS kiting around.

Interesting thoughts. Im frankly not sure what you could do to improve guard quite frankly. I almost wish they could do some sort of adjustment where holding a shield would increase guards effective range by another 10-20% however this wouldnt impact RDPS. Frankly though, do RDPS really need guard as much as MDPS? As RDPS most of the damage you take is from enemy ranged DPS as well. Where as MDPS will take ranged + other MDPS + tanks on them... so they drop rather quickly.

The goal of this suggestion (my OP) was to try and provide more incentive for more people to use guard. It just seems, to me, that the roll of a tank and a healer are selfless rolls when played right, where as the DPS class gets to be "selfish" getting all the support and seeing big numbers. Thats what I am trying to address, atleast for tanks, making the tanks job to be more appealing where he gets to have some "fun" too.

I didn't realize we were talking about fun or boring, thought we were talking about balance. I mean, some of the recent changes to casting on the move has taken away a large amount of fun for certain classes. I just feel 50% damage redirection/reduction is too powerful. As I stated, why not just nerf it to 25-30% and make it stack. There are solutions, just need to not be overly concerned with the fun appeal.

I think you should concern yourself with both frankly. Noone wants to play the most balanced game in the world, if its also not "fun". People want to feel "powerful" I do think games have gone too far into everyone basically being uber heros now a days and being able to do EVERYTHING from heal, to tank, to DPS. Rather than having distinct "metas" its almost like everyone is everything. I dislike that. However that said, things need to be FUN otherwise people wont do them.

As I wrote above. the roll of a healer and tank are rather selfless and frankly much less fun than seeing a big 1500 crit on your screen and the guy dying and you get to say "checkout my DBs!" at the end of the match. The healer has atleast SOME advantage over the tank in that they have a "total healing done" column so he can atleast say "look at my leet heals" while the DPS guy says "look at my Deeps brah!" This is what leads to the selfish tank mentality in the first place. He has to go glass canon (or thinks he does) in order to register on the "total damage" column and ends up not wanting to guard, because its not as much fun. Frankly the support classes need to be FUN support because the DPS classes get to have "fun". So what makes things fun while being balanced? Well.... My OP was one suggestion or an attempt at this. I just see so many tanks NOT use guard it makes me sick. Even on my Chosen, I count countless tanks not using guard. Go solo Q Praag and look at how we will have 6 or 7 tanks and you will be LUCKY to see 2 using guard. Of those 2, Id be shocked if even ONE of them was even in range of the person they are guarding. Why? Because its not fun and doesnt benefit them.... it only benefits/makes MORE fun, the already "fun" classes who DPS.

This is the issue. The FUN classes get to DPS, and then the support classes just make the "fun" classes MORE fun.

I dont know the best solution. But I do think adding some type of "synergy" component would go a long way - where the tank can somehow see the direct result of his guarding and not just "oh that guy isnt dying as much" because frankly that isnt as much fun.

This is where I think removing some +damage from the tank classes and then adding back in when guarding would make guarding more appealing and more FUN, where now you feel like there is a distinct benefit to you and the guard-ee to your guarding.

If that be a damage bonus, or a % of their damage you get credit for too, or SOMETHING that allows you to SEE the impact and FEEL the fun of guarding another class.

I think in all honesty, in an IDEAL world, either EVERY class would be damage + something else. Liek heals + damage, or tank + damage or damage + control type of thing. OR.... There would be NO damage classes, everyone would deal mediocre damage and the "damage" classes would rather be a "damage buff class" that would allow all classes mediocre damage to be better. Thinking along the lines of a Mara here and how they have every debuff under the sun. If every class dealt crap damage, and those debuffs were doubled or tripled. The "damage" class would be the source of OTHER classes damage.

I mean its ALMOST like Guard needs to be reversed and given to MDPS classes instead, but INSTEAD of "receiving" 50% of the guard-ees damage, it "GIVES" 50% of the damage they take to the assigned target. This way its the DPS class that FORCES the tanks to guard. Which then you would see much more teamwork.

Thats the type of thing that I would prefer. Where as right now, its too silo-ed where the tanks have to CHOOSE to cast it and then have to choose to stay near their target (heck sometimes on my mara I would get in a party with 2 chosen and couldnt tell who threw guard on me, id have to click and look for the debuff/buff on them too and if both happened to be guarding id have to guess who is guarding me).