Return of Reckoning

xyeppp wrote:

Euan wrote:
xyeppp wrote:
If you wish to discuss your ban, contact a member of staff privately on the forum.
Do not make a public thread about it.

He said he would ask around about what I did and get back to me, I never heard back about it

Yeah, you totally never heard back from me, ever.

Spoiler:

xyeppp wrote:

Euan wrote: Maybe you can help me? I really don't know any of the staff except you, I've seen you a few times in game. That's why I made it public because I didn't know who to contact or what else to do. I figured someone would see it and maybe we could talk about it then.

I cannot reverse the ban, because the person who applied it is technically higher than me. I have asked about it however, and am awaiting a response. I will let you know as soon as anything comes.

xyeppp wrote:

Euan wrote:Any update on the situation? I haven't heard back from you guys.

I tried, but it's applied by somebody higher than me and unfortunately I can't reverse the ban. You still have to wait 3 days, sorry man.

Also, anyone who knows me and plays is aware I would never call all of Destro retarded, and I'd like you to provide some proof on that - and no, this isn't a case of a GM asking you to provide proof but not giving it themselves - you jut slandered me, twice, while being wrong. And I even told you in-game that I do not agree with your ban necessarily, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Bacta wrote: Each GM is different and has a totally different way of dealing with things. Punishments seem to be very inconsistent as of late. This isn't the first time I've heard of that particular GM kicking people off the server.

This is one thing I will agree on. It's actually being discussed internally due to recent events with Mavella, to ensure this does not happen again.

Thanks for commenting back! Good to know it's being addressed. I don't mean to be a **** in my recent post regarding GM's. I know they are trying to play and enjoy the game too. Maybe there needs to be a guideline for what actions receive certain punishments instead of going by what a particular GM seems fit? Say inappropriate name - Name change and a warning. Exploiting a small bug - warning - if it continues 3 -7 day ban knowing the severity. Exploiting a bug and profiting from it 3-7 day ban (First time offender) In the future it would be nice to see more NA GM's that are on during NA prime time and late night.

Euan wrote:I did not recieve the message but I can see now that you did send it wherevr the hell it was supposed to go to. How exactly did I appeal for it? I really was not aware of it so how I could appeal it? Also was this for telling magicthighs that the player hasn't done anything wrong and to get off his power trip? The player hand't done anything and magicthighs already had an atittude to the point of cursing at him. But I'm banned for "having an attitude".

Link? And you were banned for violation of the rule about criticising GM actions, which remains a rule regardless of potential GM misconduct, for better or for worse.

Euan wrote: You banned me for being annoying because of my posts/calling you order bias which is in your sig. I show you how you're lying to cover your order bias. You tell me its irrelevant.

You didn't show anything, and as I predicted, you've failed to address any of my previous points, and you will similarly ignore the additional points I shall now mention:

- Choppa Don't Wanna Live Foreva being moved down to 15 points
- SW Enchanted Arrows nerf
- SW Heal debuff move

If you're not going to respond to my points on this, drop the line of attack, because I'm truly sick of reading this Order biased garbage.

Euan wrote:Noisestorm wasn't even part of that conversation, he just butted in. You would think I deserve it and you would take action against me and not your buddy. Because I call you out.

Shock horror, I'm not going to take action against people with whom I'm closely associated IF I am sure that someone else will do it for me. Why would I risk souring the relationship, especially if I feel what they did was deserved? Easier to delegate that to one of the many other staff members with mod powers.

Euan wrote:I've actually posted that this game is more balanced than people think. Destro is by no means an underdog and almost anything can compete here. I have no attachments to Marauder, I never even mained Marauder aside from the start. The reason I defend Marauder is because he's the subject of attack. If I was really attached to Marauder, would I really be logging more hours on another class? Is that why Marauder was my 3rd class I got to 40 even though he was the first I started with? I've actually told you not to change things based on forums QQ.

You're trying to paint a picture of me as being unreasonable. Please go look in your inbox and tell me how unreasonable I was being.

I've offered to help with replying to player questiosn before, I've offered to help with ban appeals before but I'm just a troll who just wants to bitch, right?

You might not be a troll - I'm not sure yet - but if you're not a troll, then you're a bigger problem than a troll could ever be. Trolls can be banned without much fuss. Ardent zealots are more difficult to deal with.

Also, I don't read much from the politeness of someone offering their help. Offering one's help can be a means of acquiring some kind of power, and it's questionable in the first place whether I would want to accept the help of someone with whom I disagree so frequently, yes?

I'm not really in a position to say whether your particular choices on live or on RoR reflect upon anything in particular. I merely wished to note the fervour with which you defend Marauder in general, and suggest that this is indicative of a certain amount of bias on your part, hypocrisy in other words.

Anyway, what I'm still getting from this topic is that we are going precisely nowhere. Given an opportunity as golden as this one to show discontent, we still have very limited expression of it. Changes have been made, and are in the process of being made, in order to ensure that any issues related to power abuse or excessive sanctions will be dealt with correctly, in a manner that is visible to the community. This topic has basically just devolved into looking into the far past in order to justify attacks made on the present.

Bacta wrote:Thanks for commenting back! Good to know it's being addressed. I don't mean to be a **** in my recent post regarding GM's. I know they are trying to play and enjoy the game too. Maybe there needs to be a guideline for what actions receive certain punishments instead of going by what a particular GM seems fit? Say inappropriate name - Name change and a warning. Exploiting a small bug - warning - if it continues 3 -7 day ban knowing the severity. Exploiting a bug and profiting from it 3-7 day ban (First time offender) In the future it would be nice to see more NA GM's that are on during NA prime time and late night.

I allude to this in a previous post. The Head GM needs to look over the guidelines I have written before they can be posted.

Torquemadra wrote: The GMs are frustratingly straight laced and mindbogglingly fair to the point of face palm induced concussions, there have been many occasions when I have been telling them to ban a particularly toxic imbecile to be told "lets just have a word" and "a warning/short exile will do". I wish I knew which GM was so power crazed so I could get them to clean up the place.....

I think that this is the main issue, there are some players that continue to have open accounts even when they do the same **** everyday, and are even known for doing it, and then some random guy does it once and hes gone with a ban, in my mind it shows either a sign of influence or just lack of enforcement ( I'm not saying I'm innocent I have done my share of trolling etc ) however certain individuals are just seriously toxic and get away with all sorts, racism, nationalism, elitism etc etc

There is a lot of things that go on that the GMs are blind to, and even when told about said players nothing gets done so they continue to do so and it looks like they are untouchable so it gets even worse. And then we have the complete other end of the spectrum, and ill use chats as an example. Destro chat can get pretty shitty and crowded, and when it does we call in for it to be moderated and there you have it, away it goes. From my brief playing on order side it seems TOO moderated, its like there are complete different rule sets for the factions, people scared to piss someone off because they are in a bad mood or the get triggered etc.

Just a general observation but I do find it quite funny how certain individuals have not been banned given their toxicity towards other players daily, while some get banned for something as silly as a name.

Inconsistency of enforcement seems to be the main problem we're hearing about, and I agree that it exists, especially along the Order/Destruction divide. My presence alone on Order side, moderating chat, means that Order players have their chat firmly divided according to channel, whereas with Destruction things are much more loose.

I'll also admit that there are some struggles in which I do not wish to get involved. In the end, I want to look at the balance of the game, and that relies on me personally having a cordial relationship with the better players. I mentioned on the previous page that in cases like this I would prefer to step back and allow another member of staff to deal with the issue, but it may be the case that we simply don't have enough members of staff (or enough willing ones) to handle these issues.

I myself would actually like to see the GM team expanded and sanction guidelines posted publicly to the forum, so that there are enough GMs to both remove the ability to influence major GMs and to cover more offenses. Unfortunately, there has historically been a lot of complacency regarding how many GMs are enough to have... and I guess the fact that it falls to the lead developer to personally handle a topic regarding the affairs of a department he doesn't even manage is quite telling.

Would it be possible to implement a warning kick as to the effect of "You will be logged off in 20 seconds for <.....>". I was logged off to char screen instead of being kicked from the server and closing the client with an error message due to a use of different command so I never knew I was kicked, figured I was just logged off to char screen or that I misclicked. It's a really small gripe and I'm not sure if it's the right place for it or if you guys are already aware of that.
But I think we all appreciate you guys trying to be open and transparent about these sorts of issues.

Kicks are obsolete. GMs are supposed to issue 1 or 2 minute temporary bans if they feel a kick is justified, for this reason.

Azarael wrote:Inconsistency of enforcement seems to be the main problem we're hearing about, and I agree that it exists, especially along the Order/Destruction divide. My presence alone on Order side, moderating chat, means that Order players have their chat firmly divided according to channel, whereas with Destruction things are much more loose.

Honestly I feel like destro chat is a prefect representation of what an mmo chat should be, theres banter, trolling, call outs etc etc, people do get crazy but then comes in the GM to clean it up, I think its actually good.

Azarael wrote:I'll also admit that there are some struggles in which I do not wish to get involved. In the end, I want to look at the balance of the game, and that relies on me personally having a cordial relationship with the better players. I mentioned on the previous page that in cases like this I would prefer to step back and allow another member of staff to deal with the issue, but it may be the case that we simply don't have enough members of staff (or enough willing ones) to handle these issues.

Going to go out here and say that you believe the most toxic players are the best players? Im not sure what you define as being a better player but from this im guessing you mean the 6 man crowd, which I find surprising, but I could be wrong here, but I do find it quite disturbing if playing in a 6 man suddenly ( perhaps ) seems to give you more leverage in the way you can treat people ( could have read this entirely out of context here )

Azarael wrote:I myself would actually like to see the GM team expanded and sanction guidelines posted publicly to the forum, so that there are enough GMs to both remove the ability to influence major GMs and to cover more offenses. Unfortunately, there has historically been a lot of complacency regarding how many GMs are enough to have... and I guess the fact that it falls to the lead developer to personally handle a topic regarding the affairs of a department he doesn't even manage is quite telling.

I think that after this thread and the ones before it, its pretty much an ideal time to try and implement these things, especially a locked forum where bans can be seen publicly so we can actually see what's going on within the community and have fair say.

Azarael wrote:Inconsistency of enforcement seems to be the main problem we're hearing about, and I agree that it exists, especially along the Order/Destruction divide. My presence alone on Order side, moderating chat, means that Order players have their chat firmly divided according to channel, whereas with Destruction things are much more loose.

I'll also admit that there are some struggles in which I do not wish to get involved. In the end, I want to look at the balance of the game, and that relies on me personally having a cordial relationship with the better players. I mentioned on the previous page that in cases like this I would prefer to step back and allow another member of staff to deal with the issue, but it may be the case that we simply don't have enough members of staff (or enough willing ones) to handle these issues.

I myself would actually like to see the GM team expanded and sanction guidelines posted publicly to the forum, so that there are enough GMs to both remove the ability to influence major GMs and to cover more offenses. Unfortunately, there has historically been a lot of complacency regarding how many GMs are enough to have... and I guess the fact that it falls to the lead developer to personally handle a topic regarding the affairs of a department he doesn't even manage is quite telling.

Aza I feel you are doing a great job as a GM and it is hard to do both as Developer.GM, and player. It's to much a load for one player. Most GM's are very helpful. There is just a lot of inconsistency in punishments. I would just like to really see some more destruction GM's and more NA GM's there is a lot of stuff I have seen during the NA prime time - late night. What it the actual GM process? 99% percent of the people who apply never even get a response as far as to the people I've spoke to.

Ade wrote:Honestly I feel like destro chat is a prefect representation of what an mmo chat should be, theres banter, trolling, call outs etc etc, people do get crazy but then comes in the GM to clean it up, I think its actually good.

Maybe I'm misunderstood. I only moderate chat for channel violations, and even then I mainly care about the Advice channel so that players can use it for getting help. I do not suppress fights between players or any other drama-like conduct that may be expected of an MMO, though if anyone is dumb enough to mess with me while I have a dev tag on, they're out, of course.

Ade wrote:Going to go out here and say that you believe the most toxic players are the best players? Im not sure what you define as being a better player but from this im gauging you mean the 6 man crowd, which I find surprising, but I could be wrong here, but I do find it quite disturbing if playing in a 6 man suddenly ( perhaps ) seems to give you more leverage in the way you can treat people ( could have read this entirely out of context here )

I believe that some of them are, yes. And you're not reading things out of context much - that's practically what is happening. It's no secret that I'm one of the prime enforcers on both the forum and in game, so if I decide I don't want to get involved in something for what are essentially political reasons, there isn't really anyone left who is willing to cover it, as far as I can see.

Ade wrote:

Azarael wrote:I myself would actually like to see the GM team expanded and sanction guidelines posted publicly to the forum, so that there are enough GMs to both remove the ability to influence major GMs and to cover more offenses. Unfortunately, there has historically been a lot of complacency regarding how many GMs are enough to have... and I guess the fact that it falls to the lead developer to personally handle a topic regarding the affairs of a department he doesn't even manage is quite telling.

I think that after this thread and the ones before it, its pretty much an ideal time to try and implement these things, especially a locked forum where bans can be seen publicly so we can actually see what's going on within the community and have fair say.

I agree, but again, I'm limited in what I can do. If I had jurisdiction, most of these problems would never have happened, including the ones in which my own conduct is at fault, because I would not have to front-line GM and would have delegated that duty away from myself, which would have saved me the hassle of this entire topic.

The ban forum and ban appeals forum have been created and are now active. I'm waiting on approval to post sanction guidelines. Recruitment of new GMs is out of my hands.

Bacta wrote:Aza I feel you are doing a great job as a GM and it is hard to do both as Developer.GM, and player. It's to much a load for one player. Most GM's are very helpful. There is just a lot of inconsistency in punishments. I would just like to really see some more destruction GM's and more NA GM's there is a lot of stuff I have seen during the NA prime time - late night. What it the actual GM process? 99% percent of the people who apply never even get a response as far as to the people I've spoke to.

If you posted an application to the forum, there's a 99% chance it was ignored. As previously said, there's complacency regarding GM coverage, and it seems poorly understood sometimes that a GM may only be able to contribute maybe 6 or 8 hours per week.

Ade wrote:Just a general observation but I do find it quite funny how certain individuals have not been banned given their toxicity towards other players daily, while some get banned for something as silly as a name.

As someone who gets called toxic quite often, i gotta say that there is some people who use this word rather loosely.

I am not a saint by any means and i often talk **** in the public channels, more on the order side because its what i usually play in, i been called toxic for things like not agreeing with a decision but hey, that people also accused me of xenophobia and a myriad other things they had no proof of besides "i am pretty sure but i didnt take a screen so take my word for it"

Order chat side its mostly self moderated imo, more often i see gms and other people only putting the tag on when the other side gets cocky and needs a reminder, i even often talk **** in it about how i want one of those because while saying the same things its surprising how a [GM] tag makes people accept more than me saying it.

I reply quite a bit in advice and often i arrive late and there is 2-3 people replying the same on order side, on destruction i see people asking things and no one replies and god save them if they dare to and they reply something wrong.

So yeah Aza helps but also when i try to get his help to make him make my sc queue pop or put healers on my group he mocks me and i get depressed. Not everything is cake, bias and medallions for everyone on order side either.