[Engineer] [Poll] Fixing the three worst tactics for T4

[Azarael]

There is no reason why a DPS can't be based around being a stationary dps if it is adequately compensated for having to be stationary / hold a position to boost up to its damage.

[peterthepan3]

^ what he said.

stationary DPS can work for Magus/engi provided that, while stationary, they become demigods. WAR's pvp is fast-paced and involves a lot of moving; standing still for an extended period of time as a RDPS is usually a death sentence.

[Telen]

The engineering and virulence sniper from swtor are in quite a good position that the engineer could fill. Engineering has a ranged 70% aoe snare to keep mdps trains slowed in their aoe and virulence has a proc off a close range dps channel for each of it own dots on a target giving it good burst if it can get it set up either close or have the target close on them. Both are aimed to counter mdps either through control or very high burst if closed on.

[peterthepan3]

Similar to what affliction locks had in WoW: a channeled ability that dealt x damage depending on how many dots were up on the target. difference being locks had a means of discouraging healers from cleansing their dots, whereas there is no such drawback here.

[Kallah]

Similar to what affliction locks had in WoW: a channeled ability that dealt x damage depending on how many dots were up on the target. difference being locks had a means of discouraging healers from cleansing their dots, whereas there is no such drawback here.

Smth like that or things like the ones I proposed would be nice for the engi/magus.

I agree with you that a class that is useless while kiting, should be strong if he has to stand still.

[eks]

This quickly became a thread on how to fix the engineer overall instead of particular tactics, but I'm still going to snark on my least favorite engineer tac: Proximity Alarm
A tactic that only works agaist one class? Pretty dumb.
My idea for a tweak? While slotted, your turrets now give an Initiative buff to nearby allies. Still has some of the original effect (defense against stealth) while also increasing engineer's utility by lowering critical chance.

[peterthepan3]

But what tactic do you give up for it? Engi has a lot of useless tactics, but a lot of useful ones at the same time. a lot of classes suffer from this, though.

[Luth]

I played my engineer over the last few days to ~ level 23 and it is indeed the under performing class that i still had it in mind from the times on the mythic server.
The following is my conclusion (i'm aware that some/many points have already been mentioned):

1. The basic concept:

In a PvP game that is very dynamic, a stationary range DD is a complete fail. Not only forces you the turret + different turret related tactics to move as less as possible, but also most of the grenades in the "path of the grenadier" have a cast time and require you to stand still. Other range DDs, like the SW and SH, have mostly buildup spells that can be used while moving in there "65 feet path".
The lack of any reliable range snare adds further to the static gameplay (miss-)conception of the class.

2. Nothing special

Besides an AOE pull and the heals from the keg (very questionable value in non-pug groups), an engi brings nothing special to the group; no healdebuff nor general any noteworthy debuff potential, no CC, no high DPS potential, no noticable group support.

3. Weaponskill

The general physical range DD problem: you have to stack ballistic- and weaponskill.

4. Tactics (at last ontopic )

quick reloader and bandolier: High up in the path and only for certain abilities. No one uses this.
stopping power: Actually doesn't stop anyone; if the target has no immunity already, he gets it after the mini-punt and you delayed your death for 1-2 seconds.
throwing arm: Again, compared with the SH/SW "65 feet paths" they get a 50% range increase from their tactic.
tracer rounds, extra ammo and proximity alarm: tracer rounds forces you further into the static gameplay and in the case of extra ammo and proximity alarm your groupmates too, if they want to profit from the tactic. Also: there must be masses of deadly WE's around to get any use from it. Even with an automatic stagger for any WE that is detected by anyone, i don't think it would justify a tactic slot.
well oiled machine: Even if this had been a part of the core mechanic of the engi, the turrets would be worse than a real moving range pet imo.
I'm also unsure of how much use the AP reduction on redeploy (20 second CD) is, when calling a new turret gets instant and has only a 5 second CD.
And you still have to waste a global cooldown that can't be used to do damage.

I don't know if any changes to buff the static gameplay further might be good, as this could mean that the class still maybe underperforms in small scale content (scenarios) and gets OP in static gameplay situation (e.g. BO/keep fights).

Therefore muh suggestion (I thought of something else that could be maybe done one day):

Magus
As the magus pets have a walking animations and are mobile per default, they could be changed into "squigpet-like" versions that follow the caster around; additionately the magus needs a revamp to buff his kiting abilities to transform him into a "real" range DD + get something special that people want in their group. The gameplay will be close to the SH with other abilities, strengths/weaknesses ofc (melee abilities would look strange though).

Engi
The turrets are removed; the engi gets a mechanic like the SW with dedicated long range, medium range/kite and melee paths; different abilities, strengths/weaknesses ofc.

Sounds a bit lame as these mechanics already exist in the game, but imo this is the only way to get rid of the fundamental design flaws of those two classes, without inventing/balancing something completely new.

Maybe the turrets still could be used at BOs/keeps in the open RvR by engis to create static defenses for their realm (like the renown abilities that bolster the war engines). For magi there could be other "demon-like" constructs; the client has maybe lots of other stuff.

[Gachimuchi]

What if stopping power knockback didn't give immunity?

[Ekundu01]

To me the turrets seem to lack the most and are what seems to be the biggest issues with the class. Over all it feels clunky to have to keep positioning the turret as the fight moves back and forth along with trying to stay within range of it to get the 20% buff.

On top of that they die rather quickly and are fairly costly for an over rated dot.

Not sure if it would be possible but one idea would be to make each turret work as an extension of the tree it is designed to be apart of. Get rid of the bonus stacking damage for staying close to the turret get rid of the 2 abilities the turret has and have it auto attack and it uses the same ability the engie is using on the target it is auto attacking.

Each turret would be limited to only use abilities for the tree it is associated with. For example Gun Turret would only be able to copy the attacks from the Rifleman Tree. So when the Engie fires off Gun Blast so does the Gun turret. In order to make it no so broken I think it would have to be limited to base line abilities and not ones you need points for.