A few suggestions. Take 2 god damn time out!

[Sizer]

I'll say this again - and again when the discussion to fix pounce comes up for the billionth time.

1. No WL wants to just hit pounce over and over again. So why do they? Because when you pounce to target, you are almost never actually in range of target upon landing...you are usually 6+ feet outside of range. Now, if you are 6ft out of range of a target...and your only active and available damage (forget axe toss pls) ability of note is - pounce - guess what most WL's are going to follow up with? You got it - pounce. this is why you see the spam.

How do we fix? simple. How were mara's, sentinenls, juggs, and guardians in swtor able to use their 10 second cooldown force leap (for those not familiar - force leap in swtor was the equivalent to pounce). Well, upon firing the ability, the target would be rooted..for 1/2 second (you could spec a point to make the root last a full second). This GUARANTEED that upon landing the target would definitely be in melee range (they were freaking rooted). the tradeoff - force leap had a 10 second cooldown.

I am completely for a cooldown on pounce, just give me the 1/2 second to 1 second root on target when it applies to ensure that when i hit pounce - you are locked into a specific spot that I do infact land on and thus you are in melee range. simple - easy - done.

No one wants to spam pounce... it's spammed because the ability is poorly implemented. If you gap close to a target...but arent actually in range of said target to use your actual good melee abilities, then guess what... you're going to repeat the same gap close ability that failed to get u there.

Thanks for your time.

This is one of the more reasonable solutions to changing pounce, and I think itd work fine, though the cd/root duration would take a bit of debate.

Also itd be good if it gave immunities (1s root = 10s immunity, so not bad), I mean staggers already punish players for using cc poorly, I dont see why this couldnt be the same.






Also, seeing as people only seem to talk about pounce, going to note about 2 things by the OP.

- Recent heal on the move change, Id say its too early to tell, but it seems fine at the current cost. I mean it is 55 ap, and even if youre an am, you cant spam it forever. However, if it does prove to be too much in the future, I wouldnt be for nerfing it, instead i'd suggest moving it from being a core functionality to being part of a tactic - ideally the first tactic in the am/shaman healing tree, not sure about for rp/zealot, though they wouldnt use it either way with flash heal

- Regarding that aao change, oh god no, just no. That would be terrible. AAO is already successful in helping defenders. Ive had characters literally go from rr35 to 40 in an hour. Besides this idea (and ive seen it often before) would literally ruin rvr, as aao isnt localized but spread across a zone, so anyone not in the zerg would get wrecked. We need more reasons for zergs to split up (and defend bos), not less.

[Sizer]

but with WL snare, pet snare, pounce root and m1 root thats quite a bit off cc

Maybe if pounce lets you finally catch a moving target wls wouldnt be so crazy about getting that ridiculous m1 nerfed (because a ranged version of champs challenge that not only doesnt root you, but also does damage, is balanced, right?!?!)

Maras still need to keep it (ideally on a slightly lower duration), but wls dont if they get a buffed pounce.

[mursie]

but with WL snare, pet snare, pounce root and m1 root thats quite a bit off cc

Maybe if pounce lets you finally catch a moving target wls wouldnt be so crazy about getting that ridiculous m1 nerfed (because a ranged version of champs challenge that not only doesnt root you, but also does damage, is balanced, right?!?!)

Maras still need to keep it (ideally on a slightly lower duration), but wls dont if they get a buffed pounce.

whoa - let's not get crazy here.

I'm already conceding a 10 sec cooldown. and the pet snare - let's be honest... no one really has that up most of the time. That's like saying a squig herder has increased range because a horned squig is possible to use..

sure it's possible...it's just not very likely.

With that said, those m1 roots for mara/wl, if anything, should probably just have their duration toned down. 10 seconds is a bit excessive...everything else about it is fine, imho.

[lokenoth]

@Sizer
Nice to actually see mentions on other posts other then the white lion! XD

Frankly power leveling your character in AAO isn't really helping defenders, its just rewarding you for that odd kill you make or back line hunting, I'm not suggesting by any length that my idea is the perfect idea, but perhaps a stat buff in and around keeps would fix some of the issues with said idea? Meaning that only players attending the defense would benefit from said buff. However I am unsure if that would be possible with what tools the devs have access to or not.

[magter3001]

Isn't it better to add snare to pounce instead of root?

20% snare for 3 seconds if pounce is on a 5 second cooldown.

Another suggestion would be is to apply the root or snare as soon as the ability is activated vs when the WL lands on his target, reducing his distance from the target when he lands.

[Sizer]

@Sizer
Nice to actually see mentions on other posts other then the white lion! XD

Frankly power leveling your character in AAO isn't really helping defenders, its just rewarding you for that odd kill you make or back line hunting, I'm not suggesting by any length that my idea is the perfect idea, but perhaps a stat buff in and around keeps would fix some of the issues with said idea? Meaning that only players attending the defense would benefit from said buff. However I am unsure if that would be possible with what tools the devs have access to or not.

Dont agree with that, aao is helping defenders as it gives an incentive to be there and defend. And not to sound like a jerk, but it wasnt just an odd kill here or there, we did in fact wipe them several times at that keep d, without stat buffs, but just by playing smarter than them. Add stat buffs to that and it would be impossible for pugs to ever take anything when a 6 man is defending.

Imo the point of aao is not to even the fight as far as stats go. If 50 people are attacking a keep and 10 are defending, the 50 should take it. They just shouldnt get more rewards than the 10 defending.

The only further aao buff i'd agree with is to morale, as that isnt really a stat buff, and it makes sense to get more morale from fighting larger numbers. It would also be fine if the keep mobs got stat buffs, or simply more hp based on the aao %. Or maybe some other system to reduce zerging, great, and im sure this will get discussed in the future. But stat buffs to players, no thanks.

[Sizer]

but with WL snare, pet snare, pounce root and m1 root thats quite a bit off cc

Maybe if pounce lets you finally catch a moving target wls wouldnt be so crazy about getting that ridiculous m1 nerfed (because a ranged version of champs challenge that not only doesnt root you, but also does damage, is balanced, right?!?!)

Maras still need to keep it (ideally on a slightly lower duration), but wls dont if they get a buffed pounce.

whoa - let's not get crazy here.

I'm already conceding a 10 sec cooldown. and the pet snare - let's be honest... no one really has that up most of the time. That's like saying a squig herder has increased range because a horned squig is possible to use..

sure it's possible...it's just not very likely.

With that said, those m1 roots for mara/wl, if anything, should probably just have their duration toned down. 10 seconds is a bit excessive...everything else about it is fine, imho.

Yea I guess it is crazy. But id be perfectly happy with it being a 5-6s root, and thats why I brought it up, a pounce buff (and yes it would be a buff!) would be a great time to put that change through as well. Or at least by t4 so rdps arent completely screwed when pulls finally get put in.

[lokenoth]

@Sizer
In my eyes I'd see it more of an incentive to stay there not so much join the defenses, in fact I think in some cases seeing a large AAO number just puts would be defenders in the scenario queue.

My thoughts behind a stat buff would be so that smaller group of players could defend or survive to some capacity to at-least survive the bomb-squads on the door Victim. When I said stats I should of been more specific in saying resistances, but It's good to see you think the morale gain increase is at least salvageable as it means I'm not being crazy.
I think I said earlier on in a post that Perhaps AAO should affect the keep door/defenders and possibly even the BO's, definitely not to a level that they themselves could hope to contend with a warband but more of a notable speed bump rather then something to passively take down on the move.

Perhaps if zerging is still a threat when all siege is operational? Siege themselves, and the players using them gain an armor/resistance buff so that they won't be instantly dropped, but if memory serves that would make whoever got on Oil a happy man. (And as you said something to be discussed in the future.)

Probably said this several times now but I feel my original post probably fell prey to my irritation at taking too long to post it and having to retype the whole thing at 3am.

[lokenoth]

Regarding pounce: do you envision a root which bypasses immunity?

I personally think it works amazing in WoW with the Warrior's Charge. It was a 1,5 sec stun, which had it's own DR. It was "relatively recently" changed to a 1,5 sec root, however. I'm unaware if it bypasses immunities. I want to say, that I don't think it does. Not sure though.

But I think Mursie brings up a good point with it not bypassing it, thereby punish people who Pounce at incorrect times.

and a class defining ability should punish people because? Even if there were not intermittent latency issues the very suggestion that an ability should have such a downside on what is overall a fairly weak class (its king in t3, that will not last) is abhorrent and thats without factoring in that people DONT have time to be monitoring the myrida of buff/debuffs and immunities that flow over peoples heads. This would make mods vital over being useful.

What if someone suggested when using repel darkness and mighty soul, if you hit someone with immunities you get sent flying in the opposite direction....

Said punishment being the target is not rooted, what you are doing here is trying to make such a penalty sound absurd as opposed to common place like every other Melee CC out there, you move in your target is immune to CC, you suffer. An absurd penalty would be your jump goes on cool down and you go nowhere because they are immune.

[mursie]

and a class defining ability should punish people because? Even if there were not intermittent latency issues the very suggestion that an ability should have such a downside on what is overall a fairly weak class (its king in t3, that will not last) is abhorrent and thats without factoring in that people DONT have time to be monitoring the myrida of buff/debuffs and immunities that flow over peoples heads. This would make mods vital over being useful.

What if someone suggested when using repel darkness and mighty soul, if you hit someone with immunities you get sent flying in the opposite direction....

I don't want to speak for others, but I think the intention was as follows:

1. Pounce has a 10 second cooldown. It can and will always work on an opponent. Always

2. It will ONLY root said target when target has no immovable immunity. - Meaning, if you elect to pounce on a target that has immovable...they can still continue to move. Much like if a chosen chooses to use their KD (downfall) when a person has an unstoppable buff...it will continue to do its dmg and fire...it's just the person won't be KD'd.

That is how I would intend it to work.