Azarael wrote:
Thanks!
Now, just to point something out: if I had wanted to propose a pure melee healing WP, I would have done so. That's not what I'm proposing. Nor am I proposing WP be a 50/50 hybrid which is 1/2 heal and 1/2 dps, because they don't work. I'm talking about giving melee WP the ability to heal competently and competitively with both casted and melee heals as well as retain the ability to do some damage, at the cost of having to frontline to generate resource. Simple as that.
I would, before looking at any complex solution, want to experiment with working with the things we can do. That means making the AoE detaunt conditional on either having a 2h or having the tactic slotted, and granting a stacking buff on single-target damage which c@Azare
MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependence)
Yes you are right here. The wp need to focus at to many different stats, but when you want to do different things in one role you need to spread your stats. If you can tank like a tank, do dmg like a support dmg class and heal like a backline healer you are to strong.
Forced Splitting
"The healing component of the class needs to be just as effective as it is in the backline when specced for melee, or it's never going to be worth forgoing a book and regenerating resource in the proper manner by attacking targets."
I can`t imagen how it should work in a blanced way. When you are in the frontline you have to deal with ccs, healdebuffs and a lot of damage. When you eat all this stuff in that way you need to eat it with that attention you will get, you don`t die you managed to stick with at your target to ignore at least a bit from the hd and heal at the end of the day like a full backline healer and that without tank support. Then the class would be complete op and more important nobody need a backline healer, if it is a rp a am or a book wp.
Violation of the Mechanic
Yes its correct that the class was planned like that. But i think they see that a class like this will not work as full heal. Thats why they give him a book. The class can work as a grace wp. What do you need for it? Just a grp with the correct setup. Without a grp a grace wp is weak like all other classes.
Guard Reliance
You see it correct, you can`t survive without guard in the frontline. AOE Detaunt will not change this. You need to decide what you detaunt. Meele train or range dps farm and how you already wrote as frontline healer you can be sure that you have fast the attention from both.
Why the Salvation need the aoe detaunt i already explained in my first posting regarding this.
Tactics
Yes here i am with you there are some tactics who everybody thing wtf. But at least every class has this kind of tactics you can't balance a game with 24 classes and around (how many different tactics are ig 24x50 but some tactics are double?) in that way that every tactic has his place. I think that some tactics are just planned as **** tactic to give players an present when they have a level up even if it is not a good one.
regarding your gain loose list i would add this
+ More fury reg through fuled fury because you can sure that this thing will proc every 3 seconds when you are in the frontline.
+ More fury reg through smite. With smite in the frontline you hit more targets as in the backline.
+ You don't need to run to use Rampaging Siphon in the best way. You can pull it direct when it is needed.
+ Divine Assault yes its an interruped bait for good tanks but when it goes compelte through it is the biggest heal ig. +it ignores armor complete.
+ You can heal with Sigmar's Radiance and reg fury while you dmg and you already wrote it you ignore hds
+ Focused Mind is more usefull for you in the frontline
Your loose list is good but one thing is missing.
- You don`t look so cool with a book
- to your "At this level, Cleansing Power, Divine Warding and Pious Restoration" if you want as Salvation wp aoe detaunt you loose the same stuff at the current level.
Gear and Stats
I am here with you that is the pain from wp/dok at the moment. But how ever thats a price that need to be paid. It doesn`t make me happy but you can`t have it all. (maybe later with pve heal sets and at least with souv heal version)
Sigmar's Shield
Yep this abillity is just a lol. But i think that is something we can tweak a bit. I don't know in which way never though about this but i see a lot of potential here.
Your solutions
Guard Reliance
AOE detaunt change nothing. When you want to survice in the frontline it help a bit but with the attention you will get it makes no difference. It helps you to survive till the guard tank switch guard to you. But not more and less. And the idea to make it only for two hand avaible is the worth. It is like you would remove snap heal from rp or snarepit / aoe kick with snare from am.
Grace of Sigmar
I like the ground idea from it but please not only a absorb in the basic skill. If you want buff not the Salvation WP make this ability like this way the part from the tactic is only active when you wear a two hand. And be sure I as Salvation WP would loooove a plain absorb in the basic ability but that would be a bit to op
. I would use it much more as healer that stand between backline and frontline even with 1 hand its would be much better then supplication.
Multiple Attribute Dependence
"to ensure that playing offensively meant continually having to go in and fight to power Willpower heals and prevent abuse of Supplication / Blood Offering." i am not sure what you mean with that regarding supplication? You know that there are situations you can just go in and play offense? keep deff attack, environmental fights like wc camping or at least big zerg fights a wp can`t go in there and hit with his hammer to gain fury.
When you want that a guy with a 2 hand is valid you need to give him access to fury reg without beeing direct in combat. Even if you don`t like it but that is a must have. (btw i still hope that you don`t gain 30 fury for the first instant tick at supplication is a bug and not a hidden nerf from you
)
Lifetap Mechanics
A strikethrough would help sure. But i see more a problem to come close to you target and much more to survive till you are there. Without guard and stuff. I still think that any kind of anti cc would help a frontline wp in any way. To heal more, to make more dmg and to go back if he need to go back.
In general
I understand the idea to give the heal wp with optional meele heal? an advantage when he goes to the frontline. The problem i see here is that the disadvantage to be constantly in the frontline are to high as you could compensate this with any advantage.
Even if we don`t talk about things like easy target for outgoing & incomming healdebuff. When we don`t talk about the whole cc you need to eat. Alone the point that you already said that everybody focus you when you are in the frontline is that what kills your idea. Sure you could make the wp that hard that he don`t need to much attention from your guard tank in grp. But i don`t know why a class that receive the attention that a wp with a 2 hand got should be the only class beside the tank that survive this. And i am very sure that when an 2 hand off tank would get the same attention like 2 hand wp he would face the same problems. At and the end of the day this class should heal like a full backline healer. Sounds a bit op for me.
Yes mythic made some mistakes. But at least i think they don't were complet fools or are just to lazy to make a wp how they want to make it at the beginning. I think they see that they could not balance such a monster that a wp need to be to do that what he should do when you read the box description and i think it is not a good idea to force a class into something only because the description sounds cool and you want to play this way. I know at least you want only to make it more vaild but when you start to remove something from another specc to make your spec looks better it is a soft force.