[Split] Marauder discussion

[Soulcheg]

Last pages chosen and maras discussing how to balance slayer

[Coryphaus]

Last pages chosen and maras discussing how to balance slayer

oh look guys its our resident condescending biased bw

mara is the best mdps on destro, slayer is best on ordo

you nerf one you need to nerf the other

[Xaun]

melee herder is bad very few squigs ever waste points getting bad gas

yeah every ordo mdps getting 50% aa haste is ridiculous

I'd be interested in what Order want from Destroy or see as imba

There are many very, very powerful abilities that exist on Order only or in some cases are mirrored on obscure specs of less useful classes (e.g. Shatter Limbs/Bad Gas). And whilst I'm not suggesting Destro don't have some powerful unique abilities (Crippling Strikes, Thunderous Blow, Piercing Bite, Covenant of Celerity, Choking Fury) - they are largely single target, fewer in number and pale in comprison to the Order plethora:

ID / Shatter Limbs / Rampage
Festerbomb / Leading Shots
Dirty Tricks / Encouraged Aim / Focused Mending / Destroy Confidence
Exalted Defences
+50% AA haste on all mDps
2x Ranged KD
BW self cleanse/inc heal debuff
Pounce (as a no cooldown, kiter-catching, melee-train-escaping, mid-air useable OP ability)

[Coryphaus]

melee herder is bad very few squigs ever waste points getting bad gas

yeah every ordo mdps getting 50% aa haste is ridiculous

I'd be interested in what Order want from Destroy or see as imba

There are many very, very powerful abilities that exist on Order only or in some cases are mirrored on obscure specs of less useful classes (e.g. Shatter Limbs/Bad Gas). And whilst I'm not suggesting Destro don't have some powerful unique abilities (Crippling Strikes, Thunderous Blow, Piercing Bite, Covenant of Celerity, Choking Fury) - they are largely single target, fewer in number and pale in comprison to the Order plethora:

ID / Shatter Limbs / Rampage
Festerbomb / Leading Shots
Dirty Tricks / Encouraged Aim / Focused Mending / Destroy Confidence
Exalted Defences
+50% AA haste on all mDps
2x Ranged KD
BW self cleanse/inc heal debuff
Pounce (as a no cooldown, kiter-catching, melee-train-escaping, mid-air useable OP ability)

ive got no idea compared to ordo what destro has is nothing speical bar maybe 5s kd and destined for victory ?

[Euan]

Last pages chosen and maras discussing how to balance slayer

This thread is literally about a slayer trying to balance marauder. You put yourself if the worst light with your posts. Like you don't even add anything to discussion just show your biased colors. Quick, accuse me again of trying to get Marauder buffed, worked last time so well.

[Ungrin]

melee herder is bad very few squigs ever waste points getting bad gas

yeah every ordo mdps getting 50% aa haste is ridiculous

I'd be interested in what Order want from Destroy or see as imba

There are many very, very powerful abilities that exist on Order only or in some cases are mirrored on obscure specs of less useful classes (e.g. Shatter Limbs/Bad Gas). And whilst I'm not suggesting Destro don't have some powerful unique abilities (Crippling Strikes, Thunderous Blow, Piercing Bite, Covenant of Celerity, Choking Fury) - they are largely single target, fewer in number and pale in comprison to the Order plethora:

ID / Shatter Limbs / Rampage
Festerbomb / Leading Shots
Dirty Tricks / Encouraged Aim / Focused Mending / Destroy Confidence
Exalted Defences
+50% AA haste on all mDps
2x Ranged KD
BW self cleanse/inc heal debuff
Pounce (as a no cooldown, kiter-catching, melee-train-escaping, mid-air useable OP ability)

ive got no idea compared to ordo what destro has is nothing speical bar maybe 5s kd and destined for victory ?

That means that you do not play order enough if you cannot see what is OP on destro side.

Last pages chosen and maras discussing how to balance slayer

This thread is literally about a slayer trying to balance marauder. You put yourself if the worst light with your posts. Like you don't even add anything to discussion just show your biased colors. Quick, accuse me again of trying to get Marauder buffed, worked last time so well.

I've played this game for a long time and I've played all the classes. I've put forth many suggestions on how to balance certain classes and against each other and I've yet to see but a handful of players suggest on HOW to balance rather than just complain about it.

[Coryphaus]

That means that you do not play order enough if you cannot see what is OP on destro side.

probably, grinding out to even rr 40 on even 1 toon takes a long time

that and ordo has so many healers that i never seem to have trouble

granted i dont play ranged classes so i guess ams would want run away

[Aceboltz]

About bad gas:
Maybe the skill would be attractive enough for people to take it if the gas was produced by the pet instead of the gobbo. I think it was like this at the start of the game but was later nerfed for an unknown reason. It would really help if the gas was expelled by the pet.Don't you think it is retarded for a ranged class to have to run to melee range to use an important debuff?
It also requires 10 points in, arguably, one of the worst skill trees in game, which doesn't help.


Talking about balance, I'd like to know if people share a similar opinion to mine. I always felt the imbalance in this game was real because devs had 2 reasons to do it: a bad reason and a stupid reason.
-On live there was just much more destro players than order players. The game was always dominated by big zergs, mainly destro zergs vastly outnumbering ordo. Seeing this and believeing AAO is not enough, they just made every order class stronger in order to be able to win while outnumbered: festerbomb, exalted defenses, bull**** auras, etc.
-The other reason is because "ordo are the good guys so the must win the game". It was expressed by MJ himself on his tweeter. It's utter bullshit and has no place in a pvp game.

But now we can see that the factions are more or less balanced in numbers and ordo tends to be more populated, specially at prime times. The first reason is not valid!! It is a bad game design!

There is an other problem. I agree that the main focus of the game should be rvr, and I understand the need of devs to make a playable orvr even if destro will always outnumber ordo. But it just kill scenarios can't you see it? Ordo is made to crush a larger number of players than they are and it makes no sense at all in scenarios because both armies have equal numbers there! The result is the bullshit one sided scenarios we have 80% of the time (I'm not sayin ordo dominates sc, it really depends on team setup, they just have too much unneeded advantages).

[Greatwarden]

melee herder is bad very few squigs ever waste points getting bad gas

yeah every ordo mdps getting 50% aa haste is ridiculous

I'd be interested in what Order want from Destroy or see as imba

Here's a short list. Sadly, quite a few of them stem from the Mara.

1. Terrible Embrace: TE will always be useful but becomes especially telling in WB v WB situations where competing WBs create a front-line. The front-line always advances and recedes like a wave but, TE ensures that the Destro gets 3-5 guaranteed kills whenever the wave advances for them, kills that can't be rezzed because the corpses are now in the Destro back-lines. All too often, I remember equal clashes turning into complete routs because of the TE-tax. Fetch doesn't work nearly as well against fleeing targets.

2. Monstro-proc: The Mara means that Destro has the more durable front-line. From a WB v WB perspective, Order cannot make a melee train that can last longer and hit deeper than Destro.

3. Greenskin racial tactics: not only do the ranged Greenskins get racial tactics and the melee Greenskins get melee racial tactics but those tactics are damn useful too. The SH/Sham tactics in particular changes things so much that their whole play-style and feel is different from their "mirrors". An AM will never kite heal as well as a Sham and a SW will never been an annoying bugger like a SH.

4. Chosen tactic crippling strikes: the ability to (AOE) reduce damage to 70% ON TOP of Challenge, ON TOP of Guard just reinforces the fact that Order melee trains don't work as well as Destro melee trains. Yes the Chosen needs to slot a tactic and yes the Chosen needs to crit but in WB v WB situations that means it'll be constantly up.

5. BG super-punt: I love the fact that it makes BG special but the fact remains that it's one of the best tools from separating a tank from its guard target and Order has no mirror.

6. A minor point but Order doesn't really have a class that lays on the debuffs quite like the Mara and (to a lesser extent) BG does.

7. Morale control: This last one is just a feeling (no research this time) but Destro seems to have quicker access to Morale abilities than Order does. Part of it is 'Destined for Victory' but Destro seems to have access to some very good morale drains (the Mara's Crushing Blows?). (In before 100 Maras pop in to say how difficult it is to spec this tactic.)

[Korhill]

@aceboltz edit: i dont agree that they made every order class stronger. Than i stoped reading