Return of Reckoning

WP are meant to have good survivability, they are a melee healer. Whats the point in having a melee healer if he can't survive in melee for more than 10 seconds? Which brings the problem of DPS focused WP being very squishy in melee, resulting in the "If you are Grace or Wrath you will get shat on by the in game community", they need a buff.

Incorrect, the game was built with PVP in mind, it is a PVP oriented game, now whilst group combat is preferred for general survival, there will always be situations where 1v1 is dominant, especially before and after peak hours when you do not have enough people to fill WB. That being said a WP ability to survive is due to its ability to generally outlast most opponents due to its ability to heal itself, however this has now become redundant since melee WP do not do enough DPS or have enough toughness to act as a melee healer/support class, to make this worse knock downs pretty much mean a melee WP is dead since without its ability to heal a WP will die in 5 seconds.

And if you did play live, anyone will tell you that WP were very strong in 1v1 or 1v2 situations, however in group combat they either were godlike or destroyed, this is due to your team, if your team is doing lots of damage, and the melee WP has the trait that heals him for whatever an ally is healed from damage dealt, they become a tank of perpetual healing with average DPS, or if your teams DPS is bad and you are targeted by the opposing team and are knocked down, its pretty much GG.

Sulorie wrote:

Penril wrote:
You should clarify if you won many fights 1v1 with your DPS AM, or if you won many SC fights with your healing AM. Big difference. There are a lot of bad players who do great on DPS AM. There are very few good players that do great on healing AM. L2P issue? Maybe. If so, then heal-AM is definitely the hardest healer to play on Order.

Playing dps am properly is more difficult than playing heal am.
Utilizing their full potential requires much more than dot&run.

In 1v1? Dot&run is more than enough against most classes. In a group? Yeah, that's different.

It's sad that after 6+ years people still think WAR is a 1v1 game. Guess it is pointless to try and make them understand. Meh, who cares, as long as the devs understand (and thank god, i know that at least a couple of them realize this is a RvR/group game).

Late reply as I was mostly away for a while.

Penril wrote: Good groups don't scatter and have their own little 1v1s. They stay together and assist each other.

Happens ALL THE TIME, or at least it did when I last posted. Large push scatters in various directions to follow dispersing enemy, resulting in a dozen 1v1 and 1v2s all over the place. Are you basing this on SCs only, because this is SOP in nearly all keep sieges I've been in.

Penril wrote: I find it specially funny when one side gets rolled in a SC/RvR, and one guy from the losing team challenges one of the winners to a 1v1.

Gotta hand it to Ordies on this: they oft do exactly this w/a cheery disposition and good roleplaying of devoutness to their heroic cause. "Siiigmaaaarrrr!" and all that. Props to them on this.

Penril wrote: having a survival rate of 90-100% 1v1 means nothing when being focused by a good group that won't let him kite that easily (snares, KD, pulls, etc.). The AM will explode in a bazillion pieces unless you help him.

Every non-tanky class explodes in seconds under 3-4+ FF. Are you suggesting AMs should be excluded from this? A good AM hammering on the heals, leeches, and shields is pretty darned tanky, actually.

Penril wrote: Unfortunately many people think like you ("oh he is a DPS AM, he will be fine, he can kite and heal himself, no need to help him")

I don't think that way. I simply have found that 1v1 an AM is a solid lock ftw, and even 1v2, an AM is in pretty good shape unless they panic.

Penril wrote: and by the time he dies and your group gets pushed back/wiped, you wonder why you lost. This applies to all DPS healers.

Anyone who fails to support their healers deserves a wipe.

Penril wrote: You should clarify if you won many fights 1v1 with your DPS AM, or if you won many SC fights with your healing AM. Big difference. There are a lot of bad players who do great on DPS AM. There are very few good players that do great on healing AM. L2P issue? Maybe. If so, then heal-AM is definitely the hardest healer to play on Order.

Many 1v1 and quite a few 1v2. Nvr took the AM into SC (IIRC) but solidly just played local BOs to lvl past lvl 4. A LOT of grp fights, including a whole night where it was very lopsided w/us vs a consistently x2 numbers Destro band (one of them actually complimented us on our play when they finally dispersed in frustration), starting w/a RP and me vs 4 or 5 for quite a while, and we were winning the whole time. Admittedly, it was a REALLY good RP, but still. Only time I w/ever drop in any grp is if I fkd up, except when the AM was very low lvl. I was well cognizant of why I would drop, and correct afterwards. Usually it was running out too far, or ignoring too much dmg to myself from multiple enemies whilst I was healing others, only to get critted by a sorc when I tried to recover. Stupid moves on my part. If I played it cool, I was not dropping, tho I was healing and DPSing just fine, oft with major results. Easiest playstyle of any toon I have had on this game. I had thought SW would be that, but having to stance shift (which, IMO, is a fun and very balanced mechanic) made SW much more of a challenge than AM. AM was always just ahead of the curve vs any other class. It was fun to win, sure, but I actually felt guilty abt it, it was so easy.

Well, this thread just came back from the dead.

With a vengeance.

ThePollie wrote:Well, this thread just came back from the dead.

With a vengeance.

Yeah, I was away, mostly.

SpikyBitz wrote:

ThePollie wrote:Well, this thread just came back from the dead.

With a vengeance.

Yeah, I was away, mostly.

For the record, my comment was entirely a joke, not meant to be taken seriously or personally.

Azarael wrote:That would just kill the class.

That is how they used to be at the very beginning. No tome, no chalice. People cried that they could not sit back and heal like other healers and it was all changed to what it is now with no real tweaks into their frontline survivability they had. Behold, you have best healers in the game now.

I think that divine warding/khaine's bounty plays the huge role in dok's/wps superior survivability. Only when playing a dps and trying to take down a dok/wp you notice how often this stuff procs. And it's no wonder because mass heal basicaly gives them 6x chance to crit heal... which is kinda **** up.

EDIT: If wp's are "melee healers and supposed to be tough like that" why the hell do they sit back with a book and spam heals like some non-melee rp or am?

If WP/Dok uses a book or chalice, the range on his group heals should be reduced.

What do you guys think about that?