Official T2 RvR Solution Discussion Thread

[Kragg]

I'm sorry, but the only solution I can actually see to end this mentality forever is to either start enforcing realm balance within the RvR lakes, or to start working on realm pride, via punishing lockouts, disabling of x-faction chat, etc.

Removing crossfaction chat doesn't improve realmpride, i think. But how do you vision the improvement of realmpride? I still like the one faction rule myself but it migth be a bit late for that now

[Azarael]

People saying: only give rewards for killing. Then the objectives have no role at all. All fighting will be in front of the warcamps. Zerg only. No roaming as there are no aims to roam to.

Exactly. The entire system is based on not WANTING to lose the zone, because you won't get any rewards for your realm if you do, hence why you need to make sure your keep doesn't fall. If your realm association is so weak, then you're building a house of cards with a missing card at the bottom.

Without the objectives, what is Open RvR? In Empire T2, for example, Open RvR is a zerg between the Destruction Warcamp and Mandred's Hold. If you value kills over anything else, you may as well just make a universal currency, drop ORvR and have everyone run scenarios, because the game works better in small scale than large anyway.

This game NEEDS realm association to work. If you don't have that, you have to rely on hard balancing, like in scenarios. If you don't have THAT, you are up the creek without a paddle.

Removing crossfaction chat doesn't improve realmpride, i think. But how do you vision the improvement of realmpride? I still like the one faction rule myself but it migth be a bit late for that now

Lack of cross-realm chat is usually to create a dehumanizing effect in these games, but to talk about your next point... the only way to deal with it is to force players to pick a side. That's all that's actually needed.

[Landaren]

After reflecting on this last night and sleeping on it.

Remove the Medallions and just make the sets cost gold instead.

This adds value to gold, the in game currency already, and wont force these massive zergs to flood the one open keep that is open to gain an artificially rare currency that was just added.

[Bozzax]

There is really no problem to have a lock reward together with kill drop rewards IF a lock requires 2+ hours of RvR like the old domination system

[MrNobody]

Without realm locking the problem remains. Say I change the system such that the realm locking a zone retains control of all objectives and keeps in the zone when the zone unlocks. Now what's the optimum strategy to farm medallions? Cap it all as faction X, then flip to faction Y and cap it all for them. That, or wait for some damn fool faction Y warband to cap the keep that you need to get the lock, then roll them. Eventually faction Y will stop wanting to do this, at which point you get people logging faction Y to cap everything.

While that's true I'm not so sure it would be so rampant. Currently all players have to do is log onto their Destro characters and then rampage through the lakes. Each time they take a keep its simply a case of flying to the next zone and waiting to cap BOs and then take the keep. My alternative (while not perfect) would involve more coordination and effort to achieve. Taking 20secs to log out, log back in on another character from the opposing faction. Not all players will spend their nights logging in and out of characters to take keeps (far more effort than just logging into one and retaking all the keeps anyway). Maybe gradually extend the lock out after each keep take within a certain time frame or reduce the medallion reward. Multiple keep takes are worth less making regular RvR battles more enticing.

I'm sorry, but the only solution I can actually see to end this mentality forever is to either start enforcing realm balance within the RvR lakes, or to start working on realm pride, via punishing lockouts, disabling of x-faction chat, etc.

No arguments with any of these options. While unfortunate, they just may be necessary.

[Azarael]

There is really no problem to have a lock reward together with kill drop rewards IF a lock requires 2h of RvR like the old domination system

The question then becomes: is the lock actually worth working for, and if it is, what stops one realm from being overpopulated?

[turlututuhu]

open all map no lock every where let that damn players kill their self where they want and we can sleep in clouds.

[Kragg]

Removing crossfaction chat doesn't improve realmpride, i think. But how do you vision the improvement of realmpride? I still like the one faction rule myself but it migth be a bit late for that now

Lack of cross-realm chat is usually to create a dehumanizing effect in these games, but to talk about your next point... the only way to deal with it is to force players to pick a side. That's all that's actually needed.

Agreed. the point is just how far we will have to take it. A 30 min lockout seems reasonable, unless we want to return to playing on side. Despite multiple accounts the majority will not take that effort, or so I hope. The other side of the coin is we lock people out of content on the only aviable server around. Tough choices.

[Azarael]

open all map no lock every where let that damn players kill their self where they want and we can sleep in clouds.

what part of "no keep trading" is not getting through your skull

Agreed. the point is just how far we will have to take it. A 30 min lockout seems reasonable, unless we want to return to playing on side. Despite multiple accounts the majority will not take that effort, or so I hope. The other side of the coin is we lock people out of content on the only aviable server around. Tough choices.

It is a tough choice. On the one hand, realm consistency is valuable, in which case forcing one side would be the best option, but that means people having to choose which set of 12 classes they'd not be able to play unless/until we opened another server. This is also bad for future balance discussions. I think that'd cause riots. Using a time-based lockout results in lesser consistency, but allows players to play both sides.

While that's true I'm not so sure it would be so rampant. Currently all players have to do is log onto their Destro characters and then rampage through the lakes. Each time they take a keep its simply a case of flying to the next zone and waiting to cap BOs and then take the keep. My alternative (while not perfect) would involve more coordination and effort to achieve. Taking 20secs to log out, log back in on another character from the opposing faction. Not all players will spend their nights logging in and out of characters to take keeps (far more effort than just logging into one and retaking all the keeps anyway). Maybe gradually extend the lock out after each keep take within a certain time frame or reduce the medallion reward. Multiple keep takes are worth less making regular RvR battles more enticing.

Assuming that it takes, say, 25 minutes to flip a zone (5 min wait for flip, 15 minutes for keeps to unlock, 5 to take the keeps) a 20 second logout every hour and a quarter is not bad going at all.

What worries me about reward decay is that it would have to be a temporary solution. If one faction manages a string of victories under more fair conditions, they should be appropriately rewarded for that. We need something permanent that'll stop walkovers.

We do plan to open multiple zones at once now, because the battle at Mandred's yesterday pushed the server to its limits and now we have little choice in the matter.

[uriell4ever]

Stop the keeps resetting every 15 mins and you remove that easy supply. With nothing to fight there is little advantage to having superior numbers so things will generally even out.

Without realm locking the problem remains. Say I change the system such that the realm locking a zone retains control of all objectives and keeps in the zone when the zone unlocks. Now what's the optimum strategy to farm medallions? Cap it all as faction X, then flip to faction Y and cap it all for them. That, or wait for some damn fool faction Y warband to cap the keep that you need to get the lock, then roll them. Eventually faction Y will stop wanting to do this, at which point you get people logging faction Y to cap everything.

I'm sorry, but the only solution I can actually see to end this mentality forever is to either start enforcing realm balance within the RvR lakes, or to start working on realm pride, via punishing lockouts, disabling of x-faction chat, etc.

I heard some nice ideas yesterday like unlock 2 zones at the same time but keep the timers as they are.
This could allow people to gather up no matter the faction or strength of the enemy faction and wouldn't fuel the "let's join the winning side" mentality. Furthermore, pvp rewards should be logically only rewarded to pvp players thus fighting empty keeps is pve and shouldn't reward xp or medallions I would enforce the following:

1. wipe all soldier medallion gear
2. make soldier medallion gear cost crazy amounts like 1000 medallions
3. reward people soldier medallions per each team kill near BO or keep for all team players.

It has never been an issue completing 150 kill quests so people wouldn't be able to complain about this...

Or a modified version where gear costs are crazy high like I just said and there is a big chance for drops on medallions near BOs and Keeps for every kill. The drop chance would further increase to underdog faction.

The faction login could be locked out to few hours when playing the other faction with the exception of underdog faction. Let's say you play destro so you need to wait for 1 hour or so to log on to order, but if order is underdog you can do so immediately. I know this doesn't prevent players from having multiple accounts but a small improvement is better than none.