Cost of +25 talis

[Bozzax]

Hey there! I was a big proponent of introducing a new end-game grind once we had agreed to reduce the cost of the Tri/Vic rings, so I wanted to take a moment to add some comments in.
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I do personally think this is the right approach long-term though, with these Talis meant to represent the very top of that pyramid, with fairly minimal stat gains awarded to those who are willing to do a bit of everything to earn them. As always, we'll continue to watch, listen, and potentially adapt or offer more options in the future, and we appreciate the feedback!

A prestige grind is fine. Forcing PvP players into PvE for competitive advantages is not.

The problem is not just these talismans. PvE already provides Bloodlord weapons, stronger potions, damage rings, and armor pieces that can outperform Sovereign gear for certain classes and builds. Adding more stats through another PvE-linked system only increases the gap.

Ten stats may sound minor, but they are added on top of every other PvE advantage. For organized groups, the real difference can be much larger than ten stats once weapons, armor, rings, potions, and talismans are combined.

This does not encourage players to explore the game. It makes PvE feel mandatory for anyone who wants to fully optimize for PvP.

The long-term direction is the real concern. If every new layer of BiS progression is tied to PvE, then PvP players are gradually forced to spend more time doing content they do not enjoy just to avoid falling behind.

Keep the grind, but give players equivalent PvP, PvE, and Scenario paths. The reward can still be difficult to earn without forcing one playstyle on everyone.

[Jajcek12]

With assumption that talismans are buy for curencies are requires some skills.
What pvp skills are required to get 1k warcrest other then time investment?
If investing into chempion marks requires some pve skills: speedrun , hard mode.
What skills are required to get 100 gold?
I belive that moste of comments are done from veterans who see this change only from perspective of warcrest sink. For those only chempion marks are needed, and dung runs would be not fun because of its intensity. If its only one point of stat- why speed it up in first place.
I can imagine some new player who enjoing both areas of content: pvp and pve and gather required resaurces durnin gearing jurney.
Lets dont forget that right now player will/can gear into prebis via pve. Dont see the problem that some of those runs will be speed runs/ hard modes to get chempion marks and get talismans in future.

[kpihuss]

One of the key goals of this design is to create something that requires skill from players across all parts of the game. The recipe intentionally blends in PvP, PvE, and even crafting as we wanted it to encourage players to do a bit of everything. (If there had been a special currency for Scenarios at the time of concept, we might have added that in too!)

As an idea:
- That new talismans require only 1 Champion's Mark instead of 3.
- That a +25 talisman can be upgraded to +26 for the same cost (1000 War Crests, 100 gold, and 1 Champion's Mark), and that this process can be repeated up to +30.
- That there is an NPC who can remove these talismans from armor pieces, allowing them to be used on different pieces.

This way, a little bit of everything will be required, but players will also feel that it's not so much of a life drain for such a small reward.

[derKleineKerl]

I can imagine some new player who enjoing both areas of content: pvp and pve and gather required resaurces durnin gearing jurney.

Yeah i am pretty sure this new players will get in all the new speed run parties because all the veterans are "forced" torun speed runs and are so even less inclined to help new players. Why should i risk a speed run for a new, or a bad player ?

[Mandodlenn]

So in the future, you may start to see more motivation to do specific types of PvP for specific rewards, with Scenarios being the next to step up on this front. The Scenarios team have been working really hard to both increase the payouts (already live) and motivation for players to jump into Scenarios lately, so I'm excited to see where they land with it.

Thank you Rubius for clarification, and to the team for all the work. Looking forward to these PvP novelties.

[Jajcek12]

Who force veteran player to run with randoms ? Many vets already have good friend list to run dung with. Or select players from /5 advertising "its a Speed run"
Who force new/bad player to not read rorwiki?
And why someone ignorance should be argument to not implement new talismans.

[derKleineKerl]

Just saying that it could be possible that new player will find it harder to find dungeon parties.

But in general i really hate it that you have to do bad and limited pve content over and over again in a pvp game. I rather grind 10k crest for a ring than do this new "endgame" grind.

[arturziomas]

With assumption that talismans are buy for curencies are requires some skills.
What pvp skills are required to get 1k warcrest other then time investment?
If investing into chempion marks requires some pve skills: speedrun , hard mode.
What skills are required to get 100 gold?

And what skills speedrunning gb/bb/bs (can't speak for LV speedruns because i never bothered with those) requires in a party full of BiS players that these talis are supposed to be for? Reading 1 page of wiki in case someone never did the boss before, is that this mystical skill? With geared players you just run from boss to boss and blow them up, it's just a time investment, same as getting gold or warcrests, no skills required either.

maybe tie those +25 talismans to Capital Sieges instead?

Omg I love this idea, it would be such a simple and elegant way of reviving the cities, this game really shines in 24v24, especially if it would be paired with the matchmaking fixes for cities (I think i remember an idea of matching winners with winners of stages between instances to balance things out, it would be great if that was implemented, but even without it, it would be a much better idea than mind-numbing dungeon speedruns)

[Jajcek12]

Imo apart of possible meta/ stats change.
in the end it will keep players online and engaged.
There are days when rvr/ sc stinks and only thing i could do is loging out.
Since pvp is not always full with content or just player dont want to do pvp that day.Dung is another tool to stay online making meeting friend and not loging out. Chempion mark from Speed run into talismans is another gool to get bis/pre-bis gear.
No one force me to do 24/7 dungeons run because 8 point diff is so crutial for meta play.
I will do it in my time when I wish to without histeria that someone push me into extended pve just for 8 points of stat.

[Jajcek12]

With assumption that talismans are buy for curencies are requires some skills.
What pvp skills are required to get 1k warcrest other then time investment?
If investing into chempion marks requires some pve skills: speedrun , hard mode.
What skills are required to get 100 gold?

And what skills speedrunning gb/bb/bs (can't speak for LV speedruns because i never bothered with those) requires in a party full of BiS players that these talis are supposed to be for? Reading 1 page of wiki in case someone never did the boss before, is that this mystical skill? With geared players you just run from boss to boss and blow them up, it's just a time investment, same as getting gold or warcrests, no skills required either.

maybe tie those +25 talismans to Capital Sieges instead?

Omg I love this idea, it would be such a simple and elegant way of reviving the cities, this game really shines in 24v24, especially if it would be paired with the matchmaking fixes for cities (I think i remember an idea of matching winners with winners of stages between instances to balance things out, it would be great if that was implemented, but even without it, it would be a much better idea than mind-numbing dungeon speedruns)

I didnt make assumpions that Speed runs are skills requires - Rubius did. I just ask what skills are required to get 1k crests and gold if new talismans are buy for curencies that need " dedication" to get.
Offtop-Imo geting chempion mark is required more skills them crests. I can join pug in rvr and crests will tick. But les likely to join dung speed run and do nothing and do it.
I imagine talismans cost is compromise around content and time investments.