Return of Reckoning

Sinisterror wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 5:32 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3468d1k-NQ Everyone can watch here one of the best (Solo)WAR Players Mdpv before GcD change from 1.15s to hardcapped 1.5s. Its easy to see how much better it flows than nowadays, not just because of his insane talent=)

+1

Fey it is true that there are much more in play than 1.15s gcd in that video, but the gameplay is definetely much more fluid. Back in those days WH had 150% Heal bullets, 50% Armour pene tactic and Flowing accusations = You could play basically full dps build just with that.

I never ran fleshrenders or blue chest back when Wh was OP, heal bullets + parry + BIG dmg because things like 35% dmg buff from Vindication buffed Bullets dmg as well, so 600 dmg bullet = 900 heal : D

Im not even saying all that should be brought back, but i do like how goddamn fun and powerful it was. Welf Witchbrew was always about outlasting opponent and needed a bit more regen because kisses are not controlled like bullets with flowing accusations is, and i always liked WH more in that regard because you could spam abso/trial by pain and be far enough that your target cant hit you.

But back then full hp regen wasnt the MUST HAVE(in solo play) and You could kill regen specs with offensive specs which is so much harder if not impossible nowadays.

I truely think 1.15s gcd would be preferable for everyone here. GcD was 1.15s In Live as well! And im not taking anything away about RoR Staff 11yrs of hard work/Dedication Praise hail! Respekts, but if i think something makes this game better i will shout on forums from time to time about those things : D no hate for anyone

"The GCD on both AoR and RoR is 1.15 seconds. We know this is the case because the client allows abilities to be used 1.15s into the displayed 1.5s GCD as long as you get your timing right. If you invoke the ability too early, it will be blocked until the 1.5s GCD is up.

We previously had the server enforce the 1.5s GCD hard, and it resulted in client casts being cancelled."

Sinisterror wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 6:58 am

I truely think 1.15s gcd would be preferable for everyone here. GcD was 1.15s In Live as well!

"The GCD on both AoR and RoR is 1.15 seconds. We know this is the case because the client allows abilities to be used 1.15s into the displayed 1.5s GCD as long as you get your timing right. If you invoke the ability too early, it will be blocked until the 1.5s GCD is up.

Where do you get this from? In the dev post it is clearly stated that AoR had a 1.5 GCD. And whom did you quote? These lines are nowhere to be found in the original statement. Is it somewhere between those 14 pages?

Like I wrote, I played on live but can't remember if there was really a 1.5 GCD, but I would be surprised if not because 1.5 seconds was a fairly common time.

Stimpz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 10:00 am

Sinisterror wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 6:58 am

I truely think 1.15s gcd would be preferable for everyone here. GcD was 1.15s In Live as well!

"The GCD on both AoR and RoR is 1.15 seconds. We know this is the case because the client allows abilities to be used 1.15s into the displayed 1.5s GCD as long as you get your timing right. If you invoke the ability too early, it will be blocked until the 1.5s GCD is up.

Where do you get this from? In the dev post it is clearly stated that AoR had a 1.5 GCD. And whom did you quote? These lines are nowhere to be found in the original statement. Is it somewhere between those 14 pages?

Like I wrote, I played on live but can't remember if there was really a 1.5 GCD, but I would be surprised if not because 1.5 seconds was a fairly common time.

It's from Azarael. ALOT of the forums Are not accessible from those times. But Azarael was The "Main RoR Dev" Who has pretty much devoted his life to Warhammer online but hasn't been part of RoR team since 2018?

Faction69 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 3:49 am

Fey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 12:52 am Just go play WoW dude. It's fine.

Ironically WoW GCD is 1.5 seconds so this change made the game more like WoW, not less

Most out of touch response of all time, WoWs STANDARD GCD is 1.5 Seconds, however tons of things in WoW Affect GCD speed. Rogues, druids etc all have lower GCD Speeds, theres abilities that vastly speed up your GCD. They have tons of abilities that are off the GCD. They do not effectively have the same GCD Due to the amount of things altering the GCD in that gamea, here its static, and we got nearly no off gcd abilities to compliment the long timer.

Its clear you got no to minimal experience with WoW PvP, or you dabble in it so casually that its something you dont care about just to regurgitate that sentence.

Fey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 6:30 am Cutting the GCD by something like half a second is a terrible idea. It is not good for players with high latency. It is not good for new players. The GCD cut should be at most something like 1.3-1.5 seconds. Abilities and potions off the GCD are another discussion.

@Sinisterror

Your example here is an elite player using many abilities in short sequence allowing him to 1vX noobs. Yes it is very fluid for you, but is this good for the server? Still I believe that this encounter isn't particularly relevant to the GCD change. I've read the OP, with his 40k+ hours playing MMOS, and I just have to be that guy this time.

@OP

This is an eye-roll post at its most charitable. And I personally think these types of threads are detrimental to our small dev base. The fact that the server just had its 11 year anniversary is a miracle. Lost Vale is around the corner. The numbers are healthy even for summer. Just play the Nurgle-grabbing game.

If you think regen dps is OP, just build that and run it. The people who have been here for years already know. That particular meta (are we just talking about WB builds here?) took a giant hit with the proc nerf; because you build defensively, and proc your damage. Even ability-based procs like Skull-thumper/blurring shock have had an internal gcd added.

But with Sigmar's blessing, get your x4 fleshrenders, and sentinal whatever. Post your evidence and prove that this is an issue of rampant tanky regen dps. Meanwhile the rest of the server will grind their bastion weapon, and lotd jewelry sets, and their stupidly easy to get sent ring with +4 crit tali.

I don't exactly see the strong correlation of regen and GCD; but even if your regen build is quite strong, it just proves that the itemization in this game is on point. If you can regen dps your way to killing BiS Sov. heals then goddamn that would make this entire post. That would be a tremendous asset to those in the know who could then validate these now seldomly used builds. By the way the set-bonuses and itemization in this game are incredibly well optimized for varied playstyles. That is one of the strengths of this particular server.

"Currently theres (sic) nothing significant enough in this game to think ahead about,"

My guy, that is literally your 4 tactics. Surely you, infinitely killed by WE, knows that you can tailor your tactics to survive that very encounter. Archmage for example can slot, Run between Worlds, and also pop an anticipatory 30 second absorb potion. When you claim there is nothing in this game to think ahead about, I have trouble taking you seriously.

You think this is clunky and slow? Try an actual old-school MMO of which there are sundry examples.

Please do not sully this board by bringing up Wow. Wow has stun-lock, and many other bad mechanics. It is a poorly designed game.

First of all, no one directly compared the game to WoW Saying it should be WoW, It merely has examples as to why certain mechanics in that game work that does not work in this game due to the lack of those mechanics. Those are two very different things, and the whole if regen dps is op go play it is the most dumb, mute argument anyone could ever pull in a discussion. Not everyone wants to play the OP Meta thing because its a boring way to play the game, you dont pick a witch elf as a new player expecting to build like a tank, youre expecting an assassin playstyle. But the game forces you into playing that tank spec, hell every witch elf I know of absolutely despises the fact that they have to build a regen tank on their WE to be effective. Its not fun for them either, theyre simply forced to do it by the state of the game, and that is bad design. Your classes cant even hold up to their own thematics anymore & i dont see how thats defendable. A lot of good players, including Croquette a WL is building literally 4x Fleshrenders with Blue Sentry weapon and blue chestpiece etc because its the best way to make use of the kit, same goes for literally every WE. Isnt that crazy how the most effective way to play assassin style burst classes is by building them as a tank.

Allowing people to play regen doesnt mean "itemization" is on point lol, its literally RUINING class fantasy. If you wanted to play a full regen tank you shouldve played a full regen tank, once again not forced to play it on a burst DPS because your dps build is useless in comparison, thats god awful design and anyone could see that. & Im not sure how you dont see a correlation between GCD & Regen, Regen ticks regardless of GCD. And it completes itself regardless of the GCD, longer GCD means less ticks of damage going out, meaning more ticks for your Regen to catch up. Its not rocket science.

& Mentioning my deaths to Witch Elves yes, Im not even mad about a WE killing me. Hell any WE SHOULD Be able to kill me theyre a direct counter to me & the class Im playing unless Im in an Assault build then I win more often than not. My tactics are already tailored to nuke a target, its already tailored for every other class in the game. Im not tailoring it yet again only for witch elves and then struggle against the rest of the roster thats such a mute argument aswell.

& the fact that you are trying to compare Warhammer online with actual old school MMOs makes me think you can only refer it to Ultima, everquest etc which is such a far cry from how this game is actually played instead of comparing it to actual games that play similarly to it, you're stretching way too far atleast stay within the realm of realism.

You claim not to sully this board with WoW, yet put Warhammer on such an immense pedestal claiming its doing everything right & giving it immense praise. We all love this server, we all love the devs, however claiming that Warhammer is an infinitely better game than a massively succesful franchise is a complete eye gouge of your own. I guarantee without a shadow of a doubt 80% of our already small playerbase is here because we have direct ties to this game from young, many of us played live, many of us grew up with it we are held to it emotionally & through nostalgia. At MOST only 20% of the playerbase found this server organically and played it without knowing the game from live, and that is even more evident by the fact that everytime the game gains massive exposure it retains next to no players. The numbers are currently healthy, but only in correlation to its own previous POOR Numbers. These numbers werent considered healthy before or in comparison to anything else like a Lineage 2 Private server etc. Hell most of the playerbase that left during that GCD Change never came back.

& I think the PvE Dev team is doing an amazing job, even though I personally don't like a lot of pve in a game where I play it for the pvp, i dont want to have to go through pve for wards on alts because its by far the quickest but still going through timegating etc. Thats just my opinion, and I can remove my opinion and still appreciate the work that the PvE Devs are doing. And theyre doing a great job in that regard and props to them even if its not something that directly cares or benefits me.

& People here arguing that it still takes Skill to think ahead. Like are you serious? You do realize by that logic, thinking ahead when you have less time to do so is a more skillful thing than thinking ahead when you have longer to react. Making the right play every 1.1 Seconds is harder than making the right play every 1.5 Seconds, theres even more skill expression in that, like hows that logic even applicable, the thing you are arguing for literally has more skill expression in the thing you are arguing against. Mind blowing

& You have people in this thread who are extremely passionate about the game, so much so they spent tons of their free time outside of RoR to make content and videos about RoR, claiming their dissatisfaction of the changes and all you do is brush them off, when they are clearly more invested than you, you got other people linking content from people who used to play all those years ago who were beloved players of the community, or highly regarded players who has never came back since the changes. People who invested tons of time & passion even when their free time couldnt be spent on the game, they made sure they did something FOR the game. Such a massive middle finger to the players who tried to elevate and push this game to another audience while claiming posts like this is a slap in the face to the devs when you are quite literally repeat slapping the players who have supported the devs and trying to silence them from actually speaking out.

Eye roll all you want, consider it a detriment to your dev base but all that shows is that you don't have a leg to stand on or a mind of your own to think with, actual hivemind.

leftayparxoun wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 5:42 pm I would like to once again point out Omegus' write-up regarding the issues of the old GCD system:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=48309&p=511560#p511549

From my understanding of it, the previous GCD wasn't system wasn't 1 second. It was anything between 1.1 and 1.5 seconds depending on timing, lag and other things. While it is now guaranteed to be 1.5 seconds now with the new system, the change wasn't that significant as people claim it to be (1s to 1.5 seconds). On average it should have been ~1.3 s before and also had a lot more issues such as no queuing.

Even if it was inconsistent, the game felt way smoother and nicer with 1.1- whatever GCD than it is now. Also one thing to add is that the queue system Omegus is hyping in that post adds extra layer of clunkiness because it doesn't let you change your mind last moment and sometimes you miss extra gcd due now "wrong" ability firing off due queue system at least if you button mash like many mmo players do.

The game felt much better to play when the gcd was 1.15.

Sinisterror wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 6:58 am"The GCD on both AoR and RoR is 1.15 seconds. We know this is the case because the client allows abilities to be used 1.15s into the displayed 1.5s GCD as long as you get your timing right. If you invoke the ability too early, it will be blocked until the 1.5s GCD is up."

We previously had the server enforce the 1.5s GCD hard, and it resulted in client casts being cancelled."

Aza was not always right, and in the early days of RoR there was an awful lot of guess-work and inaccuracies when it came to trying to figure out how abilities work. Which is understandable considering they had the hard job of attempting to reverse engineer things from scratch. Give Dalen his due - it was the heroic effort he (and Max?) lead in more recent years to fully reverse engineer Mythic's ability database that came with the client (the database had the exact workings of how each ability worked) that lead to the game finally having a fully functioning ability system.

And if you want to prove the AoR had a 1.15s GCD then all you need to do is load up YouTube and find some old videos showing abilities being fired off on a 1.15s GCD. I was not able to find any, they all looked like 1.5s to me (and I was going frame-by-frame). The packet logs captured in the final days of WAR could also be used to confirm how often the abilities were actually firing.

If you want a more recent and correct overview, Max's post here covers it: viewtopic.php?t=48352. The tl;dr is that old RoR was wrong and/or buggy.

Hugatsaga wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 1:37 pmAlso one thing to add is that the queue system Omegus is hyping in that post adds extra layer of clunkiness because it doesn't let you change your mind last moment and sometimes you miss extra gcd due now "wrong" ability firing off due queue system at least if you button mash like many mmo players do.

I've no idea anymore if RoR stores the first ability you press in the queue or the final one, but if it's the first one then that sounds like something worth putting in the improvements section to see if it can be changed from the first to the most recent one to let you change your mind at the last moment (providing the info gets to the server in time).

Thanks for the post Omegus.
Max explains it nicely I would say:

It is a giant can of worms to do it properly when you start thinking about it. We can scale the stat & weapon multipliers to match a different global cooldown duration. But if you scale stat multiplier down, should you also scale base damage down to match/be same portion of the damage? What about cooldowns, if cooldown was equal to 10 global cooldowns before, should it also be scaled down? What about dot/hot tick rates, usually they are 2 global cooldown durations, should they tick faster? What about buff durations, if a buff lasted 10 global cooldowns, should that also scale down? If dot tick rates are scaled to match the global cooldown, you have to adjust buff durations as many are coupled with dots. Then what about cost, should that also scale down? Doing less for the same cost doesn't really make sense.

All of these things really need to be thought about and a proper decision taken before doing that.
We would maybe have chosen a different GCD duration if we designed the game from scratch, but it would be a massive rework of abilities to change it currently.

We are already 18 months into the class rebalancing effort after the new Ability Rework and so far we are "done" with 12/24 classes in the game. Changing the GCD any time soon would be a really fast way to reset almost all progress and stop the effort midway to try and re-rebalance almost all abilities according to that change (Don't forget PvE abilities too that would also hinder the PvE teams efforts from bringing us new content!). While a smaller GCD would probably make combat more fluid, I would personally only like to see it after the class rebalancing endeavor has been completed and only if the balance team has the courage to essentially start again from scratch.