Return of Reckoning

I've been talking about this for years saying that BO' should give bonuses and that players can click on the flag and get the champ buff from the BO and use that to defend it. oRVR is and always should have been the endgame. A possible option could be that delivering supplies goes on a stockpile like in GW2 and from that players can buy upgrades and repair the doors which would make leveling up keeps require more commitment than mindless box running. Thank you SmackdownNinja, a weekly influence reward would be fantastic. In fact on Apocalypse they were going introduce that. Also other rewards should include crafting items like purple seeds etc.

Even a BO system like the new howling gorge, or iron forge, blood of black cairn, would be better than the current RvR style. Gromgril crossing is another good example.

Only have a few BOs open at a time to battle over. And making BOs the primary resource for the keep.. this would change things dramatically.
Since the BO system is already in the game, how long could it take to implement this?

Sorry but I dont even step into RvR anymore, unless there is some kind of keep stuff going on, or we're being camped. Its so open ended and mindless, it doesnt even matter anymore. Id like to start playing RvR again.
And so would the rest of us.

Can we get any feedback, or is this just wasted on us??

yep , now rvr not interesting , ranked sc is dead thanks to bracket xd , and last nice content its city in /5 wb with our group vs /5 wb with strong ppls xd . But ok youre working on the Hunter Wale(and if im right, this dungeon stay after BB/BE in hierarcy,but lower bs, not interesting for high gear ppls(85-90% players on this project have minimum 1 top gear character))))) xd wait more time) wait new live for BO. Wait new live for ranked sc. And for project xd . thx

ZillaT wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:39 pm Can we get any feedback, or is this just wasted on us??

I spoke about this particular question in depth today on Discord.

The problem typically stems from player behaviour - and that people will always find the optimal way of doing things to get rewarded. We could theoretically implement a plethora of RvR 'fun' things to do, but unless we attach something shiny that's the 'new BiS' people won't be interested. Currently, the oRvR is zergy - however this isn't necessarily new, it's always had an element of zerging. But if we delve deeper into reasoning as to why people are zerging, it comes back around to the ease of it all, and the quicker rewards.

We got onto the topic of Realm Pride, and making oRvR great again. And the truth is - nothing has actually changed. We haven't stopped the potential for realm priding - but as players it seems there's a disconnect between wanting to play oRvR for the fun and pride of it - and yet, wanting to win everything and get BiS so you can reroll and do it all over again.

Now - from my perspective - as I mentioned in the first page of this topic, I am in agreement that the state of oRvR isn't the best. Some would call it stagnating and I can't say I would necessarily disagree. However, to ask for developer input to solve an issue that is player driven - really doesn't get us anywhere.

This being said, I want to clarify that I'm not suggesting we will do nothing and let is pan out until everyone hates it and it dies. That's not what anyone wants (contrary to what some may believe). However expecting something to be implemented, quickly, that will suddenly revitalise oRvR, isn't realistic.

What I can say - to your question on 'can we get any feedback' - is we did collectively have a conversation internally today and discussed oRvR and some ideas were thrown around. Now, will any of these come to fruition, we don't know yet. There's a fine line with player behaviour and developer input - and we want to make sure that players feel they have the freedom to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it. Even if that means for some people simply AFKing on the BO's - running a few supplies here and there and eventually getting themselves some nice gear. On the flip side of this, we don't want to be sitting idle whilst we have a community of members who are screaming at us for change.

What I'm trying to get at here - is that we see your concerns. We see this thread and we see the replies. However it's not as easy as some may think to solve the issue as it stems deeper than most think. Any 'quick' change will simply act as a band aid. And even 'quick' changes have a chance to completely backfire on us.

As we've mentioned a lot recently, we have upcoming projects than need to come to fruition before we can truly devote individual time to revamping large systems such as orvr. That doesn't mean we're not considering looking at it and don't have internal chats with ideas etc. It just means we have a limited amount of developer hours and a magnitude of projects we're working on. What we don't want to do is stop working on what we're already on with to rush something else out. But we appreciate prioritising is a thing.

TLDR: We hear you. Just try and be patient with us.

Kaelang wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:26 am

ZillaT wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:39 pm Can we get any feedback, or is this just wasted on us??

I spoke about this particular question in depth today on Discord.

The problem typically stems from player behaviour - and that people will always find the optimal way of doing things to get rewarded. We could theoretically implement a plethora of RvR 'fun' things to do, but unless we attach something shiny that's the 'new BiS' people won't be interested. Currently, the oRvR is zergy - however this isn't necessarily new, it's always had an element of zerging. But if we delve deeper into reasoning as to why people are zerging, it comes back around to the ease of it all, and the quicker rewards.

We got onto the topic of Realm Pride, and making oRvR great again. And the truth is - nothing has actually changed. We haven't stopped the potential for realm priding - but as players it seems there's a disconnect between wanting to play oRvR for the fun and pride of it - and yet, wanting to win everything and get BiS so you can reroll and do it all over again.

Now - from my perspective - as I mentioned in the first page of this topic, I am in agreement that the state of oRvR isn't the best. Some would call it stagnating and I can't say I would necessarily disagree. However, to ask for developer input to solve an issue that is player driven - really doesn't get us anywhere.

This being said, I want to clarify that I'm not suggesting we will do nothing and let is pan out until everyone hates it and it dies. That's not what anyone wants (contrary to what some may believe). However expecting something to be implemented, quickly, that will suddenly revitalise oRvR, isn't realistic.

What I can say - to your question on 'can we get any feedback' - is we did collectively have a conversation internally today and discussed oRvR and some ideas were thrown around. Now, will any of these come to fruition, we don't know yet. There's a fine line with player behaviour and developer input - and we want to make sure that players feel they have the freedom to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it. Even if that means for some people simply AFKing on the BO's - running a few supplies here and there and eventually getting themselves some nice gear. On the flip side of this, we don't want to be sitting idle whilst we have a community of members who are screaming at us for change.

What I'm trying to get at here - is that we see your concerns. We see this thread and we see the replies. However it's not as easy as some may think to solve the issue as it stems deeper than most think. Any 'quick' change will simply act as a band aid. And even 'quick' changes have a chance to completely backfire on us.

As we've mentioned a lot recently, we have upcoming projects than need to come to fruition before we can truly devote individual time to revamping large systems such as orvr. That doesn't mean we're not considering looking at it and don't have internal chats with ideas etc. It just means we have a limited amount of developer hours and a magnitude of projects we're working on. What we don't want to do is stop working on what we're already on with to rush something else out. But we appreciate prioritising is a thing.

TLDR: We hear you. Just try and be patient with us.

i can suspect a thread disappearance in the far future.

Kaelang wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:26 am

ZillaT wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:39 pm Can we get any feedback, or is this just wasted on us??

... But if we delve deeper into reasoning as to why people are zerging, it comes back around to the ease of it all, and the quicker rewards.

We got onto the topic of Realm Pride, and making oRvR great again. And the truth is - nothing has actually changed. We haven't stopped the potential for realm priding - but as players it seems there's a disconnect between wanting to play oRvR for the fun and pride of it - and yet, wanting to win everything and get BiS so you can reroll and do it all over again.

....

All this. Back before forts weren't implemented, this game was ALL about realm pride. Each side fought tooth and nail over keeps, and there were plenty of fights i was involved in where we would successfully retake a captured keep, hold our ground, and try to run supplies to retake the zone -- all to stick it to the other side. When was the last time this happened on this server?

Now... not everyone throws zones, but *enough* people throw/don't care ... because losing a zone means nothing. Heck, losing a zone means you get a bag roll - you get decent rewards for LOSING. On top of that, losing a zone often means 1 step closer to a fort or city, where you can get greater rewards - for LOSING.

This is the problem with oRvR right now - too much reward for losing/throwing/zerging down near empty keeps.

My suggestion:

Loser of oRvR zones get zero contribution toward zone flips. You get defender rolls when you successfully defend keep attacks, so it balances out.

Winners of oRvR zones that have > 100% AAO odds for the enemy get zero contribution toward zone flips. Mindless keep assaults need to be more harshly discouraged so NA Order doesn't just roll to city every night.

Kaelang wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:26 am
TLDR: We hear you. Just try and be patient with us.

Nah guys, you ain't hearing ****.

We pointed out this issues back in 2018 when you released Vanquisher (still the only realy good set out there btw for most classes) and everyone jumped on the easy bag whoring bandwagon going PvDoor for half a year straight.
You ruined the orvr game step by step with unecessary changes based on nonsense or shortfused decisions.

First example.
I roll a tank/heal warband to stop Order easy bag zerg in chaos wastes, delete 150+ people with m2 raze. One of the most glorious nights of Destro.
Two days later you move Raze to m3 and Distracting bellow to m2. Like wtf..


Second example.
A year later, I come back from my big break.
Destro is dominating with 2 sofisticated fmj warbands + pnp + whispers of mutiny + taow/pugs (taow guild holding 3 organized pug warbands at its hight, get **** good "content creators").
Order realm STILL stacking snipe engies, BW bombing, KoTbs and barely any slayers around. Lets not even mention the other classes with amazing utilites just tagging along as meatshield.
Zerging is really bad and the weak minded bandwagon to destro as ezi bags hangarounds.
So instead of punishing the bag whoring or implementing other zerg/overpopulation punish measures what do you do?
You increase the AOE cap from 9 to 24 people.
Throw ALL abilities into an abyss of an unbalanced state.
Making keep fights a hell.
Literally encouraging people to stack more dps ergo more people to win a fight, because gank > tank.
Utility abilities like cooldown/casttime increase, aoe heal debuff, moral drain etc are a total shitshow for a while.
The rusty gun legit backfired on you.


Third example.
The removal of AOE heal debuff.
Now I really don't know why you would even consider removing such a vital CORE utility from the game. What were you thinking?
I know that I fought some former staff member leading a group in BFP that night with my half assed warband as a dps dok.
This person gets his ass handed back to him and over night there is a sudden little hotfix note WITH SPOILER that said: AOE healdebuff is been removed from the game.
Seriously? Is it that painfull to get killed by Lutz? Can't handle the pain to get **** on by the "pug leader" so it must be broken and nerfed?

This 3rd change made everything collapse basically, small scale legit died out and reduced to warcamp and straggler ganking.
Organized warbands focusing ONLY on the moral bombing game because thats all whats left at this point.


Fourth change
Actually a good change if you didn't do the other bullshit before.
The moral dmg cap. That so called "meta" aka. "1.2.3 fart on my spot I am not creative enough to develop another strategy/warband composition to win large scale fights" strategy was only to be countered by aoe heal debuff and other utility combo btw.
Guess what, you removed both of it now.

The latest bullshit I heard was that organized warbands can't kill each other in balanced out fights, that m2 Bellow m4 rotation on the BO was to strong.
WELL NO **** SHERLOCK!


But yeah, let me be more patient.

When will you listen to the unbiased ones that play the actual game though.
Don't mistaken this as a complain just for the urge to complain.

There is many other things that are wrong a legit push player behaviour in orvr to foul play.

Hold the line changes as another good example, so it only works now when the friendly target I try to shield with with HTL is behind me. That leads to the opponent faction to ALWAYS kite into a safe space like keep/warcamp just to shoot us into the back later on the retreat.
Forts and keep fights are buggy mess, tanks have to plaster their face against the wall legit lickign it to cover the rest from the usual suspects..



ps:
Also, get this competitive **** out of your head. If you really wanna grow this game you will have to get more coders on broard, face legal issues with the owners and stand your ground as other EMU projects did.
So as I see it this is a nostalgic project bound to be labled alpha with the majority of the players being + 35 years old.
Twitch is not your future and streamers with 80 viewers should not be the people you listen to.

^ Madrocks said it all=) This really feels like " We listen but wont be guided by public opinion"
24 aoe cap + aoe HD removal + morale changes (good change without other changes) + orvr system changes. Not much to take before there aint nothing about the original WARMAGICK left.

I haven't read the whole conversion but I can always recommend the following approach:

"Take the low hanging fruits first before you try something else."

That basically means that there are almost always ways to improve things without a lot of afford. These tweaks should be done first.

Looking at RoR and seeing that the population is kind of dropping, Id try to motivate people again and try to improve the fun overall.

o) The easiest thing would be to speed up xp/renown and increase rewards. There are still people out there that have never had a character with rr80 and best in slot gear and probably never will have the way it is at the moment. Getting invader and royals is taking too long. Playing a fort for half an hour and getting maybe one or two medallions annoys the crap out of me when I know that I need hundreds of them and have several chars I like to play.

o) Ask people what they are hating the most when playing the game. Im pretty sure that most will say something like choppa/mara pulls or rampage or BHA or vanish. Then you could think about changing things a little there to make life better and the game more fun.

o) Make less played classes interesting again. Thinking about DPS RP/Zealot here. Just a few tweaks here and there and they would be ready to roll. The shaman/AM mechanic is another thing that comes to my mind.

o) Most people love events and getting nice looking gear like the huszar hat or the masks. Don't know how much work that is but you could offer such items as weekly reward.

o) Add some random unique/set drops. I always loved to find uniques or set items in Diablo and the random stuff you get in RoR is pretty much 100% trash you sell.

o) Can you please add a way to sell set items and get medallions back? You currently cant trade offensive for defensive gear or heal or dps gear. That is super annoying.

Nothing lasts forever. It is probably the right moment to make things a little easier with set items / rewards.

My 2 cents.

Too much fort and city hurts the game in general.
It wasn't all bad on live servers, this aspects need to be changed.
Idk where to go with forts but a simple lockout for city + gear from bags would be a game changer.